Sketchnote Lab

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Hey, I’m Mike Rohde, founder of Sketchnote Lab. I’m celebrating Summer arriving with 20% off paid Lab memberships through June 30, 2026.

Special link: sketchnotelab.com/summer20

Episode Transcript

Mike Rohde: Hey everyone, it’s Mike Rohde. I’m here with Tabitha Walker. Tabitha, it’s so good to have you on the show.

Tabitha Walker: Hello, I’m really excited to be here. Yeah.

MR: Pretty awesome to have you. I’ve been following you for a while. I think we crossed paths on Substack.

TW: Yeah, that’s right. And I’ve been following your work since I got into graphic recording, like 10 years ago.

MR: Wow. We probably have friends in common — Heather Martinez is one, and Brian Teralo is another. But before we get into reminiscing, let me ask you: who are you and what do you do, Tabitha?

TW: So I am a graphic recorder, instructional designer, and travel artist based in the Washington DC area. I live in Northern Virginia, about 45 minutes outside of the city. I’m originally from North Carolina, born and grew up there. I moved here a little over 15 years ago. It’s definitely not the South. It was a bit of a culture shock. I’ve got a dog, I enjoy traveling, I like eating, I like coffee.

MR: I’m very aware of your travel journals — that’s probably how we connected. This last year I’ve been into travel journaling myself. I traveled to Scotland, did a sketchnote of that experience, shared the story, and it turned into a course. Seeing your work, I really liked the way you approach it.

TW: Yeah, I didn’t start out doing visual journaling when I travel. At first I would just write it out, but over time I thought — I like drawing, I like traveling, I like writing, so why not combine the three? Almost two years ago I went to Mongolia for my birthday with a small travel group. I had a journal and I started jotting down and drawing pictures of the people I was with. One day one of the guys saw my journal and said, you really need to publish this. Everybody started looking at it. That’s where I got the idea for the visual travel log and Substack.

MR: I would love to hear your origin story. Since you were a little girl, what drew you to visual stuff?

TW: One of my earliest memories is when I was three — the first time I remember getting in trouble was for drawing on the wall in my room. Little stick figures, sunshine, smiley faces. My dad saw it and I got in trouble. But about a week later he came home with a huge ream of white paper he’d found at work and taped it to a blank wall in my room. He said, okay Tabby, now you can draw on the wall — if there’s paper on the wall you can draw on that. Fast forward all these years and now I make part of my living graphic recording, where I draw on white paper hanging on walls. It came full circle.

I’ve always been a very artistic person. My mother was also very artistic. Art class was my favorite in school. I didn’t go to school for art or design — I actually went for international relations and area studies. I started out working as an analyst with the federal government, nothing to do with drawing. Over the years I taught English abroad and worked as an ESL teacher at a community college. About seven years ago I went to school for instructional design. And my graphic recording journey happened kind of on a fluke — I was doodling in my calendar one day and a coworker said, she’d make a great graphic recorder. I thought, what’s that? She said go on YouTube and look it up. I saw a guy at a TED talk drawing on white paper hanging on a wall and I thought — I did that when I was three. I could do that.

MR: Was the transition from small-scale sketchnoting to large-scale graphic recording a big one?

TW: It was. The first thing I struggled with was how to fill up the whole chart — spacing, what do you put where, what do you do with the title. The first one I did was internal at work, a leadership conference. I was recording in a separate location so people couldn’t see me, and I remember feeling a little relieved. Now I do recordings while people are watching and it doesn’t bother me.

MR: I think you sort of get into a zone where you’re not even aware people are looking at you.

TW: It’s very almost meditative. When I record, I go to another dimension where it’s just me and the person talking. Over time with practice I’ve gotten better at also reading what other people are doing in the room — feeling people’s energy — even if they’re not talking.

MR: How did your background as an analyst impact your shift into graphic recording?

TW: I did that job for five and a half years. I was a media analyst — looking at trends, key topics. I had to learn to take all this information and distill it into key points that are concise and easy for people to understand, so they can look at one sheet of paper and walk away with the five main things. With graphic recording you get a fire hose and you have to make those decisions in the moment: what am I going to record and what do I leave off? Think of the sketchnoter as the filter — all this stuff comes in and you take out what’s key.

MR: And graphic recorders really strive to be as neutral as they can be. I imagine that carried over from your analyst training too.

TW: Yes — they were very clear that you have to be impartial, you can’t be partisan, you just report what’s there. You can’t make an inference. That carries right over. With the graphic recording I got to draw it out on paper instead of writing reports at a desk all day.

MR: Let’s talk about the logistical side — traveling to events, the toolkit, the challenges.

TW: You have to be familiar with your toolkit, know what to pack and how to pack it, vet the venue. Maybe the lighting’s bad, maybe there isn’t anywhere to hang papers so you have to bring a portable wall — that’s a whole other thing to transport. I now have an intake form with questions I ask before agreeing to even do the recording. There’ve been a few times I was told there’s a place to hang paper and then there isn’t. In those cases I’ll just do large-scale sketchnotes instead. I’ve never had a dissatisfied client when that happens.

MR: What about iPad — do you use that professionally?

TW: I haven’t used it professionally yet. I’ve done some informal recordings over Zoom meetups with other recorders. I’m definitely more of an analog person, but I’m getting my nerve up to do a digital recording. One thing I do like about it is you could be anywhere — I don’t have to travel to the event. I can be at home and record. I’ve also done recordings where a client asked me to create a graphic recording based on slides and notes after the fact — I know some recorders won’t do that, but it doesn’t bother me. It’s practice.

MR: You mentioned doing a chart readout. Tell me about that.

TW: The first time I did one was last year — I was asked on the fly to share with everybody what I’d captured. I spoke for about 10 to 15 minutes, condensing eight hours of content down to here’s what we talked about, the key themes that came up multiple times, the comments that elicited strong reactions. People got a lot out of it. It helps the attendees process when they’ve been deep in the material all day. The recording is also left there for them to look at, take pictures, ask questions.

MR: Have you thought about including it as a paid add-on in your proposals?

TW: That’s a really good idea. And it also helps with impartiality — as the scribe, you’re the impartial third party. I don’t have any stakes in this. I just heard what you said, and these are the reactions I noticed. It even helps clear up miscommunication. At some off-sites, a manager might think people are upset about one thing and it turns out through the recording it’s something completely different.

MR: Let’s talk about tools. I’m going to guess you use a lot of Neuland markers.

TW: I do. For graphic recording I use the Neuland Big One and Number One chisel tip markers. For visual journaling and sketchnoting I use the Neuland Fine One. They also came out with some felt tip pens I want to try. I’ve also just started using a white acrylic marker to add some foil accents to letters — still getting the hang of it.

For my smaller-scale work, my go-to pens are the Uni-ball Signo DX 0.38 — it dries really fast, which matters. I buy them in boxes of 12. The other one is the Pentel Slicci 0.25 — really fine, fits my hand really well. For pencils I use the Faber-Castell 9000 in different grades, and also graphite watercolor pencils where you can add water to get different shades of gray. For travel journaling I’ll bring maybe two small pencils, a couple of the 0.38 pens, a few watercolor pencils, and a water brush pen — just fill it up, screw the tip back on. Make sure you empty it before you go through airport security. Keep it simple.

MR: And digitally?

TW: iPad, Apple Pencil, and Procreate. I don’t know how to use Photoshop or Illustrator — Procreate works really well for my personal style. All the little drawings on my Substack I drew in Procreate. I also used Procreate to turn my handwriting into a font through Gumroad — there was a lot of trial and error but it worked really well. I should write that process up. The biggest hurdle with Procreate has been figuring out the right brushes. When I recently upgraded my iPad they didn’t transfer over, so I had to rebuild them.

MR: Let’s get practical. What would be three tips for someone who’s a visual thinker and maybe stuck in a rut?

TW: Number one: there is no right or wrong way to do this work. Everybody has their own unique way of processing information and transferring that to a journal or a chart or an iPad. The way you sketchnote won’t look like the way I sketchnote, and they’re all valid pieces of work. Just start — don’t get hung up on whether you’re doing it right.

Number two: practice to find your own unique style, and it’s okay if your style changes over time. The way my work looks now is not the same as it looked 10 years ago or even five years ago. It’s going to morph and evolve, and that’s okay.

Number three: it’s okay if your work doesn’t look like other people’s. Don’t feel like you have to dim your light to try to fit in with how other people are doing it. If you want to work in black and white, or all caps, or cursive — that’s your unique style. And that’s also good for business, because when people see a piece of work, they’ll know it’s yours.

MR: Great tips. How do people find you?

TW: I’m on Substack under Sketch Journeys for the travel journaling side. You can also reach me by email at tabitha@sketchjourneys.com or at my business website sketchjourneys.com, which covers the graphic recording side.

MR: It’s so good to have you on the show, Tabitha. Thanks so much for sharing your story and your process. For anyone watching or listening, that’s another episode. Until the next one, this is Mike Rohde — talk to you soon.

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

June 2026: Sketchnote Lab Dispatch

Mike Rohde — Fri, 05 Jun 2026 16:39:43 GMT

Happy June 2026! The sketchnote above was created during Danny Gregory’s Paris in a Day session, live with Sketchbook Skool. What a blast! If you want to learn more about Danny and his work, check out the podcast interview I did with him.

Hey, I’m Mike Rohde, founder of Sketchnote Lab. I’m celebrating Summer arriving with 20% off paid Lab memberships through June 30, 2026.

Special link: sketchnotelab.com/summer20

What’s in this issue?

5 Cool Things to share with you
Sketchnote Lab May - Foundations Replay: Drawing People with Alejo Porras
Coming soon: Sketchnote Lab Live June: Problem-Solving with Steven Lin
Sketchnote Podcast's latest 5 episodes are live
Sketchnote Lab 2026 Schedule - see what’s happening each month of 2026

Five Cool Things

Here are five cool things I thought you would enjoy:

❥ 1. The Neuroscience of Doodling: Understanding Attention and Creativity - Bryant Del Toro gets into the brain reasons why doodling is so good for you and how it helps you focus and recall more later.

❥ 2. The Story of Tomoe River Paper - This Japanese paper maker, which appears in the Hobonichi Techo, is legendary. I’ve always wondered how they make it so thin and yet handle fountain pen nibs and ink.

❥ 3. 4 Tips for More Balanced Journal Pages - In this article, my friend walks you through using the whole page, creating drafts, balancing drawings and text, and a final secret to make any page look better. Thanks, Zsofi!

❥ 4. You Haven't Drawn in 30 Years? Good. - My friend encourages you to pick up a pen or pencil and draw, especially if you haven’t for 30 years! Yes!!

❥ 5. Sketchnote Army Archive - I’ve moved every last Sketchnote Army blog post to a dedicated archive site featuring 1,000+ posts dating back to 2009. Includes podcast episodes too (over 175 to choose from). Check it out!

Sketchnote Lab Live Replay: May 2026 - Foundations: Drawing People w/ Alejo Porras

What We Covered

The 5 Basic Shapes for people - how squares, circles, triangles, lines, and dots are the building blocks of recognizable figures.
Heads, bodies, and proportion — practical rules of thumb for getting figures to look right quickly, without overthinking.
Live drawing demos — I walked through building figures step by step, from stick-figure basics to more structured forms.
Movement and gesture with Alejo Porras — Alejo showed how to add fluidity and dynamism to figures, so they feel alive on the page rather than stiff or static.

Here’s a little taste of Alejo on what people get wrong about drawing:

Watch the Full Video Replay

If you aren’t a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner, watch the full video recording by becoming a Lab Partner. You’ll also get access to the Partner Vault, with recordings from everything I’ve done here from December 2024 onward.

Get 20% off paid Lab memberships through June 30, 2026.
sketchnotelab.com/summer20

Sketchnote Lab Live June - Sketchnote Problem-Solving with Steven Lin

In June, special guest Steven Lin will bring a challenge, and I’ll use sketchnoting to visualize the problem and brainstorm potential solutions.

Watch as I work with Steven, sketchnoting solutions visually, live, while you watch. My goal is to show you how you can sketchnote solutions, too.

The session is free to all subscribers, with the recorded replay video available exclusively to Supporting and Founding Lab Partners (which includes all video replays since December 2024).

The Sketchnote Podcast’s Latest Episodes

The Sketchnote Podcast launched Season 1 in May with five episodes already out. Here’s a quick look at who’s been on the show:

S1/E1 — Federica Tabone & Claudio Nichele: Sketchnote Camp Verona 2026
The organizers of this summer’s International Sketchnote Camp in Verona, Italy, walk through the event. It’s a joint gathering of the ISC and European Visual Practitioners communities, running as a BarCamp Plus with participant-led sessions and a collective harvesting on the final day.

S1/E2 — Danny Gregory: Art with a Lowercase “a”
Founder of Sketchbook Skool and author of a dozen books on drawing and the creative life, Danny talks about how a personal tragedy sent him to a sketchbook and why he believes drawing belongs to everyone. not just trained artists.

S1/E3 — Sarah Greer & Adrian Peryer: Rethinking Meetings
Co-founders of Shared Vision Toolkit, Sarah and Adrian have spent decades turning ordinary meetings into immersive, co-creative experiences. They talk about their Design-Centric Facilitation approach, why 80% of the work happens before anyone walks in the room, and how live visual capture builds alignment that words alone can’t.

S1/E4 — David Armano: Unlocking Creativity in the Age of AI
Designer, creative director, and writer David Armano digs into how visual thinkers can use AI without losing what makes their work distinctly human, and why developing a recognizable style and doubling down on in-person experience matters more than ever right now.

S1/E5 — Andrew Tan: Embracing Creativity, Reflection, and Tools
Singapore-based freelance illustrator and Drewscape creator Andrew Tan traces his path from accidental business major to independent illustrator, sharing what he’s learned about vintage fountain pens, monoprinting, working confidently with pen on paper, and giving yourself permission to be imperfect.

All five episodes are available at sketchnotelab.com, SimpleCast, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you listen.

I have 5 more episodes this season to share, dropping every Tuesday through July 7th, wrapping up with the popular “All The Tips” episode 10.

Sketchnote Lab Schedule for 2026

I have two focus areas for 2026:

Teaching foundations for people new to sketchnoting
Live problem-solving sessions to show how you can use sketchnotes as a thinking and problem-solving tool at work and in your everyday life.

You can see January-May replays already as a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner!

Last Month’s Sketchnote Lab Posts

Here’s what happened at Sketchnote Lab last month:

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support my work and access all Live Lab recorded replays since December 2024.

Learn more about The Sketchnote Handbook

Buy My Books

You have what it takes to create sketchnotes, even if you’re a complete beginner at drawing. My two books help you get started today!

The Sketchnote Handbook

This fully illustrated book is designed to teach people without any drawing skills how to create sketchnotes. You’ll learn how to capture your thinking visually, remember key information more clearly, and share what you’ve learned with others. Have fun taking notes again!

The Sketchnote Workbook

This fully illustrated book and 2-hour video are the sequel to The Sketchnote Handbook, which shows you how to use sketchnotes in your everyday life to brainstorm ideas, plan projects, document processes, record travels, and more. Learn how sketchnotes help you think better!

Learn more about The Sketchnote Workbook

Sketchnoting Workshops

Check out my sketchnoting workshop videos to build your lettering, layout, and icon-creation skills for your sketchnotes, or to learn my travel sketchnote method.

Custom Sketchnote Workshops

I love teaching teams like yours how to think visually and sketch simply with Custom Sketchnote Workshops.

I've presented workshops at schools: Drexel University, Marquette University, and The University of Michigan; Anne Arundel, New York City, and Fresno school districts.

I’ve also presented workshops for teams at SmugMug/Flickr, Hubspot, Northwestern Mutual, Johnson Controls, Dentsu Creative, and Sibley Memorial Hospital.

I’d love to teach your team as well. Let’s talk!

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

Andrew Tan: Embracing Creativity, Reflection, and Tools — S1/E5

Mike Rohde — Tue, 02 Jun 2026 13:03:41 GMT

In this episode, I sit down with Andrew Tan, a freelance illustrator, art teacher, and creator of Drewscape, to discuss his journey from daydreaming about being a business major to becoming an independent illustrator in Singapore.

We dig into how his years as an advertising art director shaped his approach to working with clients, his love of vintage fountain pens, the push-and-pull between analog and digital tools, and what he’s learned about confidence, contrast, and giving yourself permission to be imperfect.

Hey, I’m Mike Rohde, founder of Sketchnote Lab. I’m celebrating Summer arriving with 20% off paid Lab memberships through June 30, 2026.

Special link: sketchnotelab.com/summer20

Listen to the episode:

Running Order

Introduction and Andrew’s journey from YouTube rabbit holes to professional illustration
The significance of sketching as a reflection tool and its flexibility
How culture and background influence Andrew’s artistic path in Singapore and America
Transitioning from art direction to independent freelancing
How Andrew’s art direction experience shapes his illustration work
Insights into Andrew’s tools: vintage fountain pens, monoprints, and more
The impact of storyboarding and speed training in Andrew’s skillset
Effects of the pandemic on Andrew’s professional projects and his COVID Chronicle series
Cultural perspectives on comics and visual storytelling in Asia and Singapore
Changing perceptions of comics from kids’ entertainment to sophisticated storytelling mediums
Favorite tools: iPad Pro, Procreate, and challenges with digital vs. traditional mediums
Embracing imperfections and the psychology of confident drawing
Techniques for sketching and illustration workflow, combining paper and iPad
Practical tips for visual thinkers in a creative rut: spontaneity, contrast, and permission
Connecting with Andrew: YouTube, website, and ongoing courses

Resources & Links:

Sponsored by The Reflective Travel Workshop

Have you ever wanted to create travel sketchnotes from an experience you’ve had, just using the photos and memories you’ve got?

This 2-hour recorded video includes a set of downloadable, printable sketching templates and a process to kickstart your own travel sketchnoting practice.

All this for just $20.

Subscribe to the Sketchnote Podcast

You can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.

Support the Podcast

To support the creation, production, and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde’s bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

Hey, I’m Mike Rohde, founder of Sketchnote Lab. I’m celebrating Summer arriving with 20% off paid Lab memberships through June 30, 2026.

Special link: sketchnotelab.com/summer20

Episode Transcript

Mike Rohde: Hey everybody, it’s Mike and I’m here with Andrew Tan. Andrew, it’s so good to have you on the show. Thanks for being here.

Andrew Tan: Thanks for having me, Mike.

MR: I was cruising around on YouTube and stumbled across this guy teaching how to do diary comics. I watched the whole video, went down the rabbit hole, watched all the videos you made, and reached out. I was so inspired that I put together a one-hour diary sketchnotes workshop on Sketchnote Lab and people really loved it. So thank you for that.

AT: You’re welcome. I didn’t invent the diary comic concept, but I was amazed at how you took to it.

MR: When I find cool things I think others will like, I try to share. Tell us who you are and what you do, Andrew.

AT: I work as a freelance illustrator — I do stuff for various clients, work from home, love the flexibility. I’m also a parent with two kids. These recent few years I’ve been teaching more — I’m an adjunct lecturer at a local art school. I think I got the love for teaching from my mom, who used to be a teacher, and the drawing part from my dad, who was an architect. I also like solving things, which can keep me up at night, but it’s also how I learned art. I didn’t go to art school — I was a business major — so figuring out how to draw something was like solving a problem for me.

MR: Tell us your origin story. You’re in Singapore, which is a unique culture. How did you come to where you are?

AT: Like all kids, I liked drawing. I liked it even more when people said I could draw well. I was a daydreamer — drawing was like playing with action figures on paper. What got me interested was Star Wars. I drew Star Wars comics in my school exercise books. My mom threw those away.

I wanted to study art, but my dad said artists don’t make money and sent me to Washington State University for four years to study mass comm and business. When I came back, I wanted to be an art director but didn’t have a portfolio, so I went to a certificate course in graphic design — at the same school I’m teaching at now, actually. I eventually got into advertising and became an art director doing work for corporate clients like banks. But I was at the agency until 11pm three times a week, handling five projects at once. I wanted out but my dad said don’t quit until you have clients lined up. My mood just got worse and worse until my boss picked up on it and said he thought it was time for me to leave. I was really happy. I told my dad and went straight into freelancing. I’ve never looked for another job since — that was about 20 years ago.

MR: Your art director background probably helps you understand exactly what clients need.

AT: Yeah, I know exactly what the art director is asking for, or I’ll ask the questions to get me there. And I already critique my own work before I hand it over — sometimes there are hardly any changes, or I’ll even propose changes they hadn’t thought of. I just have to be careful not to seem like I’m taking over their role. I stay in my lane as the illustrator and supplier.

MR: You did some storyboarding early on that must have trained your speed.

AT: A former lecturer gave me storyboarding work for Sony and other TVCs — 15 frames in two days, all colored in Photoshop. That definitely trained my speed and clarity. Right now I’m doing mostly finished editorial illustrations, which is really rewarding because there’s a concept and I’m free to find the right picture for it. During the pandemic the advertising jobs dropped off, but the National University Hospital commissioned me to do the COVID Chronicle comic series — chronicling the pandemic from inside the hospital, combating fake news with real facts. I did that for about two or three years, once or twice a week.

MR: Do you think there’s more acceptance of comics and visual storytelling in Asia compared to the West?

AT: I think we’re getting influences from all over — West and Japan. Education books are definitely using more comics now, where before you’d never bring comics to school. The manga and anime style resonates with younger people. I wouldn’t say Singapore is as immersed in it as Japan — there everything from train posters to books for housewives to books for businessmen is anime. Singapore is somewhere in the middle, with influences from both directions. But in any case, graphics help communicate to wider audiences. You can get something from just the visual, and then text plus visual gives you even more.

MR: Let’s talk tools. What are your go-tos?

AT: I got really into vintage fountain pens. What got me started was dip pens and the thick-to-thin pressure line they gave me. Vintage fountain pens could do the same thing. I found Greg Minuskin in California — he’s like an Indiana Jones of fountain pens, goes to flea markets, restores them, retips the nibs. We’re still friends. Every time I buy a new pen it makes me want to draw more. I like the flex nibs, the extra-broad double broads, the Fude nibs — anything that gives me an unusual line. For ink, Platinum Carbon Black is my most useful because it’s waterproof and scans cleanly as black. Beyond pens, I’ve got gouache, acrylic, acrylic gouache, oils, monoprints. I’ll never finish mastering all of it, but what excites me is the combinations — pencil with monoprint, fountain pen with watercolor. Each combination gives a different look.

Monoprinting is another method I like — you spread screen printing ink on an acrylic sheet, put your paper down, and draw on the back side. You get an unpredictable texture with accidental ink that adds a kind of dirt to it. Especially now with everything moving toward AI and more perfection, I like having something that goes the other way.

For finished illustration work I use an iPad Pro and Procreate. I’ll sketch the rough idea quickly for client approval, then transfer to Adobe Illustrator for the final vector piece. But I cycle back to paper often — I get tired of looking at the screen, or I want something I can’t move around on paper, and I go back to the iPad. Still figuring out the best method for comics.

MR: What would be three tips for a visual thinker who’s in a rut?

AT: First — practice drawing spontaneously with a pen, directly, no pencil sketch underneath. A diary comic or sketchnote is like a spontaneous diary. You don’t pre-plan your diary. Going straight to pen prevents overthinking. Whatever mistakes appear, just leave them or cancel them out. It looks more honest, more charming, and it trains your confidence.

Second — add black. A lot of artists forget the dark areas. They do midtones and outlines and call it done. But adding black to the areas of focus — the face, the eyes, the most important parts — gives contrast and lets the reader know where to look. Without contrast, everything is equal and your brain works harder just trying to figure out where to look.

Third — give yourself permission to be distorted or imperfect. I had to tell myself this because I didn’t go to art school. Especially from my storyboarding days, I’d want to erase every small mistake and I’d never get the job done. So I started giving myself permission: if it’s a bit off, just leave it. The imperfections are often what make it look nice. They make it human.

MR: Where can people find your work?

AT: Google Drewscape — that goes to my commission work and my blog, which I update more often. YouTube is Drewscape-art. I also have four short courses on Skillshare, slowly building that out.

MR: Well, Andrew, thanks so much for sharing your story — I loved the origin story, and we clearly have more in common than I initially realized. Not only Star Wars, but being in the trenches in advertising and design as art directors and illustrators. For anyone watching or listening, that’s another episode. Until the next one, this is Mike Rohde — talk to you soon.

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

Sketchnote Lab Live Replay: May 2026 - Foundations: Drawing People w/ Alejo Porras

Mike Rohde — Sat, 30 May 2026 19:23:07 GMT

Hey, I’m Mike Rohde, founder of Sketchnote Lab. I’m celebrating Summer arriving with 20% off paid Lab memberships through June 30, 2026.

Special link: sketchnotelab.com/summer20

Saturday's Drawing People session was a blast! We worked through how to draw people, starting with the simplest shapes, and then Alejo took it further, showing how to add gesture, movement, and energy to your figures. Attendees drew along live, which made for an active, hands-on session.

“It was a very helpful instruction session with Aleja Porras.
He should publish a book.” — Regine T.

A lot of information, but really well presented. Quite a few good ideas I can put into practice straight away. Thank you. — Fred Z.

Fun, helpful, and inspiring. Thank you! — Rebecca

Here’s a little taste of Alejo on what people get wrong about drawing:

What We Covered

The 5 Basic Shapes for people - how squares, circles, triangles, lines, and dots are the building blocks of recognizable figures.
Heads, bodies, and proportion — practical rules of thumb for getting figures to look right quickly, without overthinking.
Live drawing demos — I walked through building figures step by step, from stick-figure basics to more structured forms.
Movement and gesture with Alejo Porras — Alejo showed how to add fluidity and dynamism to figures, so they feel alive on the page rather than stiff or static.

Sketches from the session

Below are sketches I created during the session:

How to use the 5 Basic Shapes to create 3 simple types of people.

Dave Gray method, adding details, and exploring other poses.

Star People, proportions of people, and exaggeration of people intentionally.

Sketches from Alejo’s portion on dynamic people.

Here’s a sketchnote of the session by Jatin_infosketch you can see on Instagram:

Resources

Alejo Porras on Substack
Alejo’s Website
Alejo on Instagram
Lamy Studio Fountain Pen
TWSBI Eco Fountain Pen

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David Armano: Unlocking Creativity in the Age of AI — S1/E4

Mike Rohde — Tue, 26 May 2026 13:02:05 GMT

In this episode, I sit down with to talk about how visual thinkers and creative professionals can navigate an increasingly AI-driven landscape. We dig into how to use AI tools effectively, develop a style that’s distinctly your own, and stay memorable whether you’re working remotely or in person.

Listen to the episode:

Running Order

Introduction to AI and creativity in the digital age
David’s background in design and experience with web and AI tools
Evolution of design education before tech and navigating change
How manual processes shaped early digital work and the push for quality with new tools
Lessons from Photoshop’s early filters and digital experimentation
Blending analog sketches with AI fine-tuning for authentic style
Training AI to match your visual aesthetic and guidelines
The importance of structure and boundaries in AI-generated design
Building consistent visualizations and curating style through feedback
Using AI to manage content and automate visualization in ongoing projects
Combining human and AI efforts for scalable, reliable outcomes
Identifying your niche to stand out and create memorable, in-person experiences
The power of in-person presence, personality, and memorable engagement
How to differentiate your work and avoid being commoditized
Creating memorable sketch notes and in-room experiences that evoke “magic”
Developing a unique style that stands up to AI mimicry
Transitioning from designer to creative director—guiding AI as a tool
Embracing the opportunity for anyone to leverage AI, even with simple sketches
Tips for overcoming creative rut and the importance of reflection and intentionality
Resources to follow David Armano and stay connected
Final thoughts on innovation, community, and future opportunities

Resources & Links:

David by Design
David’s Homepage
TBDaily — David’s curated and AI-generated daily update.
David on LinkedIn
Launch by NTT Data
DALL-E 3 — for image generation with prompts

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Episode Transcript

Mike Rohde: Hey everybody, it’s Mike Rohde here again with another episode of the podcast. I’ve got my friend David Armano here calling in. David, good to see you.

David Armano: I’m Mike, and Mike’s audience, glad to be here.

MR: So David is an interesting guy. We’re talking before we start recording like when did we meet? I’m pretty sure it’s South by Southwest, probably in the glory days in the early 2000s, which are the mid 2000s, I guess 2010s. Yeah, so. But David’s been doing some really interesting stuff on Substack. I’m on Substack as a platform with Sketchnote Lab and he’s been pushing using AI and sort of the way he thinks about

DA: Yeah, I think so. I think so.

MR: the market and creative people and creativity. And I just thought it was really fascinating. And I thought David would be a really good voice for people who are sort of maybe jittery or not concerned about what if nano banana takes my job? Like how do you differentiate and how do you think about using AI in an ethical way that doesn’t lose off? Like I’m real concerned about people losing skills. Like by just turning over stuff to other tools, like you

what if that tool like the subscription goes up by 10x or it stops doing that thing that you used to rely on it and you’ve now got to do it again what if you’ve lost that skill so that’s sort of my concern but let’s get into it by seeing like David what do you do and then we’ll get right into your origin story

DA: Sure, yeah. So by day, I work for a very large company that probably a lot of people haven’t heard of. It’s one of the big tech consulting companies. It is called NTT Data. I work for sort of a boutique within NTT Data that’s kind of an experience design, centric, human centric kind of product design.

It’s called Launch by NTT Data and my title is

DA: And the second part, I guess like when I’m not on the job clock, I do a lot of thinking and writing kind of what you alluded to. I write a Substack newsletter called David by Design. You can get to it by davidarmano.com.

And, apropos this podcast, I do usually at least one visual that goes with my posts. Sometimes I do a series. And that’s been something that I’ve been doing that goes back, gosh, 18 plus years. Kind of the following during the blogging years, which created all kinds of opportunities for me that were really fun. Got to travel the world. And so

visual thinking, my style has changed, my approach has changed, but it’s been core to both my day job and my sort of little kind of what I do for a hobby and just to try to stay sharp.

MR: That’s really cool and I think you know I can relate to that too because I have a day job and I do stuff on the side as well so yeah that’s and I imagine there’s a lot of people like that who have something running on the side whether they it’s for fun or profit or both but I’m really curious I think you’re from out east I think from New York City if I remember my memory and yeah

DA: Yeah. Yeah, originally, New York City, Queens, I was born and was there until I was seven, then moved out to the suburbs of Long Island, also New York, Nassau County, and then moved to Chicago.

MR: Okay.

DA: just right out, almost right out of college, few years out of college. I did work my first couple of years in New York City as a visual designer. Started off, started my career as a visual designer and then a broadcast designer. And then as the internet was taking off, moved to Chicago, my first job in Chicago was with the Chicago Tribune and their interactive team as a formation designer.

MR: Okay.

Nice.

DA: So you can connect the dots there. And then Chicago, kind of got into marketing and advertising communications, really after like a pretty great foundation and sort of web design in the early days of web design as a creative director. And then...

My career really blew up during the social media days and sort of imploded during COVID. I got laid off after 11 years with a company, great company. And then I made a move, I made sort of a COVID move to Texas. I decided, okay, I’m gonna get a little.

MR: Hmm.

MR: Yeah.

DA: Going to leave the Midwest in the long winter, trade it for hot summers and sun. And now I’ve been in San Antonio, Texas now for about four and a half years now.

MR: Wow, I’ve been to San Antonio a few times, friend of the show, Prof. Michael Clayton. He teaches at the University of Incarnate Word in the graphic design group there. As a matter of fact, two years ago, International Sketchnote Camp was at that campus and it was a lot of fun. So we had really good food, of course, tacos and Tex-Mex and stuff. So that was a great memory. But yeah, that’s a great area.

Excellent. So going back, I think you went to design school like I did. I think you’ve talked about the school and I don’t want to say the school because I want to guess it wrong. Pratt. OK, it was either that or Cooper Union was one of the two that I thought it might have been. But so you have a traditional design education a lot like I do. Like, you know, I think about we went to school before any of this tech stuff.

DA: I went to Pratt.

Yep, on to Pratt.

MR: probably even existed, right? So we’ve had to navigate and adapt to lots of changes in our lives. And that’s really interesting.

DA: Yes, although for me, I will say it was a little different. It was actually just developing a computer graphics program. And so when I went, I had...

MR: Hmm.

DA: That was my major, but I did, I really feel like I learned so much more in the visual communications. I mean, I did learn the tools and that allowed me to get a job out of school. Like I did get a job as a graphic designer, like using Quark and Illustrator, because I knew the tools. And it was really interesting. My first job right out of school was Columbia House CDs. I designed, yeah, I designed the alternative little music catalog that you would get.

MR: Right.

MR: Really?

DA: Did all the layouts for like a section of those and what was interesting was I remember starting and I had one person left who had the big desk, the big drafting table and was doing everything by hand still and then within two or three months like they were no more and it stuck with me because

MR: Yep.

DA: I really had been working in technology related fields, honestly, ever since then, more or less. And that has been kind of an ongoing thing, which is sort of ironic given now where we are. It’s like, there’s always some major technical revolution, but it’s only gotten faster and more intense over the years. But even back then, it’s happening. The desktop publishing revolution. Yeah.

MR: Yeah.

MR: Yep, I was there for that too. I was there for the web transition, sounds like you were as well. And we both kind of rode those waves. I shifted into user centered design after that and had been kind of focused there and, you know, user experience stuff with software has been my fun spot. So I focused in that area, but a lot of change. And you know, the other thing I would say too is like, you think back, man, I’m thinking back like the way, how much manual stuff you had to do.

to just produce something simple and how much even like the jump to QuarkXPress or InDesign or whatever tool accelerated that. It didn’t like, like I think about it like the way it provided the basics that you didn’t have to think about anymore. Like, oh crap, I measured the board a 16th too short.

and now something the margins wrong or like that stuff was on me right because I was the one actually measuring the board out because I had the spec now you could still do the same you do still do the mistake inside quark but it was you know once you sort of established these things like you didn’t think about them anymore right like the it’s just letter size or whatever so like it sort of pushed you up a level to you know thinking more about the design and

DA: yeah.

MR: I kind of feel like it doesn’t really solve everything, but it pushes you up a level. And I feel like even in the AI stuff, there’s an opportunity for us to go up a level, but we still, a human influence seems like important in that mix for sure.

DA: Yeah. You know, there’s one parallel with all the AI stuff, since you’re going back to the design school days that I’ve been thinking about.

A unique thing about my experience back at Pratt was I remember, you know, learning the basics of Photoshop while I was also taking kind of like illustration or Vizcom 101, which is like foundational classes. And yes, I did learn the programs, Photoshop, Quark, Illustrator, right? And I remember specifically like my first few months with Photoshop, my output was just the worst because all I was, I was enamored by the

MR: Hmm.

MR: You

DA: filters. We probably all went through this like, Gaussian blur, remember? Like all these filters and that would be your output. But there was nothing about your ideas or even learning the craft of layout and juxtaposition and you know, just all the things that you have to learn. And my portfolio kind of reflects that. Like my non-digital stuff was way better than my digital stuff. So my digital stuff allowed me to get a job. And when I

MR: Yeah. Yeah.

MR: Right.

MR: Interesting.

DA: think about it, there’s a parallel to what’s happening today with all the vibe coding, because there’s a novelty. I think you have to get to this novelty phase when you’re learning something and then all the things you can do, especially if you haven’t mastered the basics, you get enticed by the novelty. And so we’re seeing a lot of people just build silly things that really shouldn’t be built or do all these things with AI that... Yeah.

MR: are unsustainable.

DA: Exactly, or like the slop, you know, things that we talk about, because it’s the novelty. Plus, it’s also they haven’t developed the domain expertise. But over time, that changes. And then what happens is the more people that actually have the domain expertise, you know, master these new technologies, and we were seeing that now, that’s when things get really interesting.

MR: yeah yeah for sure I think I think about that too like we used to have a joke inside the design firm is like if it showed up on the Sears catalog it jumped the shark so like if Sears suddenly had drop shadows on stuff like crap we can’t use that anymore right like that was our internal joke that we would always mess with and so it’s and I probably had the same things like

I always had stuff running on the side. I made, so I made the mixtapes back in the day for friends who all went away to college. And I had, was fortunate to have a local college radio station to play alternative music. So I sat at night, I would sit with my tuner and I would tune that station and try and catch good songs and string them together on two sides of a cassette. The fun part was designing the card that went inside and then duplicating it and mailing it to them. So that was, but that, you know, when I did the design, it was like all this experiment.

DA: Yeah.

MR: like Gaussian Blurs or whatever weird thing I could try in Photoshop and like I look back, okay

DA: I know it’s embarrassing when you look back, it’s like, I went to design school for that. But then again, one of my best, I think I took a photo of it somewhere, but I did, one of our assignments was to redesign the choking victim poster and just like be creative with it. So I did the choking victim poster from years ago, I went to school in the late nineties or mid nineties.

MR: Huh.

DA: and they probably still have versions of them today. I did it all using Keith Haring style illustrator. It was awesome. I mean, I could look back at that today and like I had train cars, like with the step one, step two, step three were all train cars and then all the little figures with all the bursts and it looked like a Keith Haring painting. It was so great. It was so creative and actually well executed. It was physical painting. It was acrylic on poster board.

MR: Interesting.

MR: Okay, so some of the sparkles were coming through and I kind of think too, like you had been trained in the analog ways and the digital was so new that you get enamored by what could be done that eventually it settles in and your digital catches up to your analog and then they become, you know, you can now express yourself, right? Like I think even like an iPad, using some of these tools, like it takes a while to kind of get to the point where understanding how what I want to achieve is possible.

DA: I think so.

MR: with this tool, you know?

DA: Yeah, the funny thing is that’s a great segue to my process with the way I do visuals right now is that it’s exactly that. It’s exactly sort of this blend of analog and AI. That’s all intentional, by the way. My best visuals do not look AI generated and that is by design.

MR: Okay.

MR: Mm. Mm-hmm.

DA: And the ones that do, I will say this. Sometimes I do a range. Sometimes I’m like, okay, this is a big idea. I want to give it the premium treatment. The artisanal treatment. And so the artisanal treatment looks like this. I’ll show it to you.

And I made this decision years ago, and it’s funny because I’m seeing this as a trend now where things are. This is the first thing I did, I got started doing stuff on my iPad and then I was like, okay, I want to actually take it even to more a paper like experience and strip away distractions and limit what I can do. So this is the Kindle, which is very comparable to,

MR: Huh.

MR: Rudimentary, yeah.

MR: Okay. Remarkable tablet, I think, right?

DA: Really is. It has a very tactile feel. You can get that nice pen weight. So what I’ll do is I’ll start with a sketch kind of like this, right? And maybe you’ve seen this one. I actually just posted on LinkedIn. That’s a long good, the AI version of it. And I’m really

MR: huh.

DA: mentally coming up with the concept for what I want to communicate visually, I sketch it out. And then I’m using AI to just like get the type to look handwritten, but a little bit less shaky, the lines a certain way, certainly the colorization, all that’s done with AI, the fine tuning. Yeah. Sometimes I’ll add things in AI. So my artisanal version really is like starting with...

the analog and my hand and bringing that in, the AI carries that over pretty well. And then I’m just not, instead of firing it up in Photoshop or pick your tool of choice where I’m actually manually, I’m now just saying make this line way thicker or thinner, try this color. I give it, I have trained an AI on my aesthetic look.

MR: That’s going to say that would be the next question.

DA: Yeah, it’s got a set of guidelines. And even I usually have to remind it, always use a white background. Dall-E always wants to use this yellowish background. So everyone’s going to have to re-hammer it. But it’s getting better. But yeah, it gets the results. I’ve kind of gotten it down to a science now.

MR: Okay.

MR: Yeah.

MR: Hmm. Yeah, I think about if we’re in early days, like where could this go if you could really define it? So two things. One, I think in my experience, at least, maybe this is not 100% true, but like it feels like AI does better when it’s given boundaries and structure and context, which is not what I’m learning a lot about. If you just

type, you know, give me this thing and describe it, our language is still not real super defined. So by you providing the drawing and then you’ve got these set of boundaries and like what kind of line weights do I want? What’s the font look like? What is always have a white background, whatever those things are. And then it just mixes those two and then you’re going to get a reliable output. That’s the thing. The other thing I observed was I think I watched a design person talking about using

DA: That’s right.

MR: another AI tool for design work because I was curious and you said something really interesting it’s like well you know you set the prompts up and you submit it to the AI if you do it today it’ll turn out one way but if you do it tomorrow it’ll look different and I was like I don’t know that that’s a good thing like I understand the novelty of it but like

DA: Consistency is hard to get, I will say. Yeah. And even if I look at my output, some look a little different than others. I’ve kind of just accepted it. Some are, but even with some of the variations, like some have like a little more of a watercolor, this and that. It’s also, I’m not super strict on it because I still feel like I’m still developing my style.

MR: So having structure helps for sure. Yeah.

MR: Hmm. Yeah.

MR: Hmm.

DA: with it. And when you look at it as a body of work, it is still pretty close. There’s still something in there where you go like, where you recognize it as one of mine, even if it’s like a slightly different style. I do think though, the goal, but then the technology will get there, will probably be more consistency.

MR: Yeah, experimenting.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Yeah. And I think that was interesting. I mentioned the same problem to a developer on a design problem at work. And he said, it’s almost better, like if you want consistent output, don’t go to the AI to do something even with specs. It’s actually build an app to produce the output you want and then submit to the app because then you take that variability out.

that the AI produces, you build an app that actually would generate. So you would actually build a fine-coded app, I guess, that would take your instructions and build it a certain way. Like, that’s interesting.

DA: Yeah, that is...

DA: That is interesting. Yes, that would probably be a really good way to do it. You know, in a way, I kind of did that recently. So I don’t know if you saw my little Vibe experiment was creating like a curation website, because I do a lot of curation.

MR: Yeah, yeah, I saw that, that was cool. I wanted to mention that.

DA: I approached that very deliberately. I wanted it to not look like there’s an aesthetic that’s developing with these vibe codes. Because if you leave a default or you don’t really know the design, they all look the same and well, it’s not good, right?

MR: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

DA: So I was like, I did it differently and I actually did it. Yes. First I started with a hand-drawn sketch. Then I took it into, you know, don’t judge me, but it worked. I just, I wanted to get the basics. I brought it into Canva and I had a design header and like got the basics of like the tabs.

MR: huh. Yeah.

DA: And then I started the Vibe coding process and it was pretty amazing. I told it the font information, had the color of the tabs and then it just started building away. The really interesting part was on the backend because it actually, the TBD.ai is the URL and it looks deceptively simple. It’s got this backend where it...

I’ve trained the agent to look for stories the way I do. I gave it a bunch of parameters, which it does. And every day I work with the agent and it gives me a number of choices based on my preferences. And then I act as the human in the loop or the editor in chief, and then it publishes the next day. I also though, to the point that you brought up, I also just connected the Dall-E API. I’ve settled, today it doesn’t have it just cause I wanted to keep it simple, but

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Okay.

MR: Mm.

DA: I’ll pick about three because it’s manageable and each one of the stories, it’ll create a visualization. And usually the way that, so what it’s doing is the agent now hits the Dall-E API with my parameters of like, do this visual style. And then when it gives me the list of, you know, I picked the final, it’s usually nine. And then for, say, let’s do it now at the end. Say, let’s see a visualization for these three. And I do actually in this case, because this is the non-artisanal approach.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DA: I do see what it comes back with. Usually it’s good enough, because these are daily, every day this thing pumps out new story. Right, new story. So I’m like, I’m going to keep the human intervention minimal. And then I only will refine it if like there’s a misspelling or something really blatant, the wrong visual. And usually I try to limit it to like two prompt refinements for the three visuals. But it’s like, here, I’ll show you an example.

MR: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Gotta be sustainable, yeah.

MR: Hmm.

DA: I could just pull one up. It’s not bad. It’s not like the ones that I do that are much more like, this is a good example. Like this is an example of what it would look like. So that story’s summary, that visualization, that’s one that actually, I will tell you that one right there, it got it on the first try.

MR: Okay. Yeah.

MR: okay well I wonder too like if you like if now you’ve got a collection of these you could go through and say these 15 out of the 60 you produced are what I like, feed those back and say follow these as a reference and as you build like you just start refining it by saying I like this I don’t like that so it’ll veer away from the things you don’t like

DA: That’s right.

DA: That was going to be another side project I was going to do. I won’t give away the idea, but I wanted to create a very, very consistent set of icons. And what I was going to do was actually

MR: Mm.

DA: I’m just going to use one of the Google tools. I forgot which one I recommended that I think I might be able to get what I’m looking for, but I was going to take my best, the ones that I really, exactly what you just said, like 20 of them. And then just say like, this is what I’m going for. And even now, like when something goes off, I’m like, no, follow it and I’ll give it two or three. And it usually course corrects. I’m doing it pretty organically, but

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Yeah.

DA: You know, from my perspective, it gets really close. It’s so much faster. I don’t render things by hand. It does the majority of the rendering. And it gets it to where I want it to be. And I’m going off the feedback. The number one thing I’m going for is it feels...

MR: Mm-hmm.

DA: Actually, I’m going for a couple of things. People are like, that’s AI. That’s the first thing they say is they’re like, that doesn’t feel like AI. I’m like, good. That was by design. And then the second thing they say is anytime I see one of yours, I know it’s one of yours. I’m like, good. Those are my two. Right. That’s like, doesn’t feel like AI, feels immediately recognizable as a new style. That’s what I’m going for. And if there’s a little watercolor effect or a line or this and that, I’m like, those are negotiable for me.

MR: Yeah, style.

MR: It’s really interesting to hear that process and show notes are a big part of the show so I’ll definitely get a bunch of links from you that people can go poke around and see. The app basically that you built to gather stories that you’re interested in, different categories, pretty interesting, I’ve checked it out. And as well, your Substack David by Design so they can follow your stuff.

My question for you is, since you’re in the space of kind of, you’ve always been, I guess, a futurist or a strategist or I don’t know, a mixture of those things. So there’s someone, let’s assume there’s someone listening who, maybe they’re a professional sketchnoter or visual thinker, graphic recorder that are doing this. And they see like Nano Banana is starting to do like you could dump a transcript on it and it could produce, for somebody who doesn’t have a budget,

it might produce a good enough sketchnote that they don’t hire me anymore. How does somebody like that look at AI and what are some maybe mental strategies they could think about to get ahead of that curve or to leverage it, right?

DA: Yeah, I’ve got some thinking on that. So I should share, like during my day job, the visual thinking does manifest in different ways. Like just yesterday I was working on a deck and just to say, at the enterprise, we tell very, which we’re in a lot of ways, it’s very technology, technology is so core and sometimes that’s just a very complicated story. So I’m trying to figure out.

MR: Yeah.

DA: And so visual thinking plays a role in that. It’s very much the copy that you write and like simplifying visuals. So that’s one way. Another way in my career, I still do it now. I actually, sometimes in in-person meetings, I’ll be the person that gets up and I’ll actually do like a very low fidelity version of like visual note taking and it’s magic.

MR: Hmm.

Yeah. Go up to the whiteboard? Yeah.

DA: They love it. They love it. I look at my stuff and I compare it to what the real people, like the professionals do. And I’m like, wow. They’re like, are you an artist? I mean, it’s laughable because that’s nothing for the quality of the stuff that I’ve seen people like yourself do. But here’s some thinking based on everything that you said. I think if someone’s doing that and that’s their business.

MR: Yeah.

MR: Ha

DA: They probably want to evolve their model so that it kind of goes off in two directions in a very distinct and intentional way. One is like build a machine for the remote meetings so that, you know, like they can be generated, but you’re the person actually sort of facilitating and like as a value add tapping into that. And you’re the human in the loop. You’re going to get better output versus them trying it, number one.

MR: Hmm.

MR: Right, right.

DA: That’s you can do those remotely. And so that’s not your premium offer, but that is something that you can do and you can do repetitively. You know, you can probably get it to like, as we’re talking about, you can probably get it to like a virtual whiteboarding, not using nano banana or something else, like you’re like, this feels good enough. And that can be part of it. And then the other one is triple down on your in-person, anything that you can do to make your in-person

MR: Mm-hmm.

DA: person more memorable or then if you have to show up wearing something okay Mike I’m going to show this to you or not me. I, in the past year I put myself out there so I’m not going to ever pretend to be shy but I

put myself out there in a way you’ll notice you don’t see a ton of video of me it’s actually I’m not like, I’m like if someone puts a camera on me I could do it but I’m uncomfortable putting it on myself. I’m also not very comfortable drawing a lot of attention to myself like the physical you know but something that I learned and I did this a few times the past year we had an event and our president wanted the team to show up wearing like she wanted us to be her tiger team so everybody wore like

MR: Okay.

DA: Tiger, you know, whatever and I yeah, and so I found a hat as like I found a tiger hat with the tiger pattern on it and my guy said wear this and she was like well I guess you could but like I always say go big or go home. I was like, alright so I wore a whole like sport coat and it looked like a Tony the Tiger smoking jacket and I mean in a way it wasn’t super high quality, but it was very loud and it certainly

MR: stuff.

MR: wow.

with the velour lapels and everything.

DA: People could not get enough. I had person after person after person coming up to me and I was absolutely uncomfortable at first. By the end of the day, I was like, okay, what did I learn? I learned that I’ve been doing this wrong and that actually these people have figured this out that I’ve kind of judged honestly, like people like this, they figure it out that they’re creating an experience. By the way, things that you and I have been talking about for years.

And so my point is like, I’ve actually since then, I’ve now created a tradition of like, find these kind of eclectic sport coats and I wear them and it’s always the same thing. So all this to say is if you’re sketchnoting, really triple down on making experience, even if it’s like, feels gimmicky, people love it. We’re moving toward a world right now where synthetic feels synthetic.

It can get the job done. It’s kind of like what you and I were talking about before you turned this on. It’s like the gap is widening between the mediocre and the exceptional. So your in-person sketchnotes should be exceptional. Like that should be a memorable experience, not just what you put on boards, but how you show up. Like make the entire thing an experience because people value that now and face to face is more valuable than it’s ever been. But on the other side, yeah, do the.

MR: Yeah.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DA: sort of just good enough and create a system on that because there’s a great model there to be had that you can do remotely, right? And so be really intentional about the divide and the directions that they’re sort of, you know, the fork that those are going into. That would be my advice.

MR: you

MR: Hmm.

It’s.

and the implication is don’t get stuck in the middle, where you’re neither, you know, you’re dead, you know?

DA: Don’t. You will be. You will be roadkill in the middle. If you’re not, make yourself memorable in person. And if you’re not now beyond your art, the art’s not gonna be enough. Think about it. People who see those things, they may assume that’s AI, even if you crafted it by hand.

MR: Yeah.

DA: That’s it. So many people now think, oh, that’s done by AI, even if it’s not, because that’s where AI is now so good at mimicking. So you have to look at the experience that you can create while you, and by the way, it kind of already is the fact that they’re in the room and you’re doing a good job, but dial it up a notch, do something like literally wear something, show up, bring personality, like figure out what’s going to be your own thing.

MR: That’s a level above, yeah.

Go up again.

DA: And then figure out how to scale the remote stuff so that it’s like, you can almost get it done like in your sleep or whatever the case. Do not be that person in the middle.

MR: Yeah, no, two things that come to mind is one of the things you could do on the high end is maybe you dive deep into a niche, right? So like you talked about, you were in the room doing these whiteboards. The reason that you’re getting such a reaction is well, partly because you are able to distill those ideas. So that’s your knowledge. And that’s because you’re overlapping on that specific niche and you can talk intelligently to it.

So for me, that’s software. I could talk about software. I have a really good rapport with developers. I understand their challenges. And so that’s my special sauce. But like, if you’re in the, I don’t know, landscaping, like you could sort of combine those two. Like you go in with a client instead of just talking landscape. Maybe you actually, while they’re there, you’re drawing it with them, right? So that’s an experience. And then the second thing, I kind of forgot what I was going to say. I think, I know what it was. Go ahead.

DA: Well, I was just going to say, don’t hold onto that thought because I want to hear it. I think the other thing that makes that, even though I’m sort of like, I know it’s not to the quality of, I don’t want to sell myself short. I do the, I listen to the lines really well. I’m just talking about.

MR: Sure.

DA: I don’t think my artistry is all that great. But part of the reason why they love it, I think is because it’s also unexpected. It’s one thing to go to a retreat and then they have like a professional visual note taker and you kind of almost expect that. I’m showing up at a very typical meeting with a whiteboard, you know, in a run of the mill, like it’s just any other day with a bunch of executives filling up. And then all of a sudden the whiteboards are filled up. Right. Yeah. It’s like magic.

MR: Mm-hmm.

Magic, magic, yeah.

DA: in an otherwise mundane business meeting.

MR: It makes it more memorable. And then, you know, you’ve got the chops to understand the context of everything they’re talking about. So you can tailor it to their understanding. And then like the thing I’ve done with software developers, like hearing what they’re saying and drawing it while they’re talking, it’s like freaks them out in a great way. Right. So that’s been good. The other thing I just remembered was, say this is a long time ago, this was back in like...

DA: Yeah.

MR: must have been 2010, this is pre book and everything. We had this really interesting experience because I work with a team that was really forward looking. So they flew to Oakland, they met with the school district and they were trying to help them.

with I can’t even remember what the topics were. But what we tried was we had a really crappy webcam. So they turned a really crappy webcam on in the room and I was observing the discussions and listening to the talks and I was sitting in Milwaukee on the other end on my computer and I was making sketchnotes out of it, what they were saying and trying to make sense of it. It’s all black and white, pretty straightforward. By the end of the day I think I had 12 pages or something. Scanned them in because there was no phones that were good enough back then. Cleaned them up in

Photoshop, made a PDF and I emailed it to the team in Oakland so the session was done they received the PDF they ran to Kinko’s they had them printed bound into books and showed up at dinner with that team and presented them with books so like you know that again that’s like okay we have very limited resources the technologies you know

DA: That is awesome. That’s so awesome.

MR: limited but with what we have what can we, like I always think like what resources do I have and what interesting thing can we make out of what seemed like sort of like an amazing chef could take the same ingredients that I make an average dinner and they make it amazing because they know like how to cook it right or the spices that will fit and like that’s again your knowledge making it a unique experience so we all have that capability

DA: Something almost, I did almost the exact version of what you just explained in one of these sessions and I scanned visuals off of the boards I did my little AI treatment cleaned them up with AI and basically incorporated them as slides and as a part of our follow-up with them like they had them and so instead of them just being the raw photos they were like blueprints and they were just a little bit more polished but yeah yeah a little nicer. There’s so many

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Nice.

MR: Well.

MR: Yeah, little nicer.

DA: And again, that could be a part of the kind of experience that you curate. Like they’re getting the boards, but what else could they get? What else could they be getting digitally behind that as well? Yeah, there’s lots of options. I love that you used the word magic because I think that is the potential that this has.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Right.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DA: Yes, something that I imagine your audience, and I’ve seen that your craft is very good. My craft is not as good as yours. But that doesn’t mean you can actually hit the same level of magic without the level of craft that you apply to your notes.

MR: right exactly that’s kind of what I’m trying to teach people is the the overlap of your experience and the tools makes it magic right it’s you being in there to do that to interpret it

and I think you mentioned like we didn’t talk a lot about the low end so of course naturally the high end make yourself visible do something unique on the on the low end or on the average end what what comes to mind is like you know those jobs where they had maybe they had a big week-long conference and there’s a hundred talks well you can’t be at all those hundred talks but they can record them they can make transcripts you can throw it at your stylized nano banana or whatever the thing is and produce outputs and then think of yourself

as a creative director where individually you’re going through them and editing them and changing things maybe you have to draw some bits and replace them and then you end up with you know this ability to do more capacity than maybe you could as an individual that could that could be interesting too

MR: Hey, networks, networks.

DA: I just lost network, just totally went dead for like three minutes.

MR: Okay, yeah, maybe the heat wave affecting you guys down there.

DA: Sorry, now we’re forcing an edit.

MR: that’s fine, easy, I just find the spot and cut it out with Riverside it’s pretty easy because you’re actually editing text like Descript did so I’m kind of experimenting learning a little bit more so basically the point when you dropped out was to think more like a creative director with the lower end of things where

DA: okay, good.

MR: Like in the past, if you had a hundred sketchnotes, you would have like, I would have sampled like, you know, which stuff is most important, go to those, produce a set that represents those. You would now in a position, you could transcript all of them, edit the transcript, dump it into some tool and then basically creative direct, you know, it would be trained on your style and produce a hundred sketchnotes. So everybody gets one, right? That’s a new offering that didn’t exist, you know?

DA: Yeah. I’m sure.

I’m so glad you brought up the creative direction and that’s something that I’ve done, something that I learned. It’s funny, cause this has been kind of a theme that naturally came up, but I’m going to call it out. Yeah. I, even though I went to design school, I learned early on. I transitioned from hands-on designer to creative director pretty early on in my career. I want to say within the first,

MR: Mm-hmm.

DA: five years. And so I was still pretty hands-on as a creative director, but over time became less so and less so. What I realized was that I was just a much better director than I was a designer, right? You know, I was a better director of talent. And what’s really interesting is that I talk to people about this, because I find that I get

MR: Okay.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Mm. Mm-hmm.

DA: good results from AI when people are like, this and that. I’m like, I don’t know. I can kind of get what I want because I’ve been directing for 30 years, literally. Language models are at a point now where I can direct and talk to a language model. So for work, I basically, I work with AI and the output that I create for work, you know, deckware, whatever the case.

MR: Yeah.

MR: Yes.

DA: And basically like I have AI acting as a researcher and an analyst, you know, and a writer. Why not direct a researcher, an analyst and a writer. And so when I’m working with AI, I’m directing them, like I’ve directed teams for the past 30 years of my career. And I know how to get what I want to get from those teams. And so if you have those director skills, even if you’re running your own business, like that’s something you’ve had to build muscle and you’re going to do great. If you have to build that muscle, figure it out.

MR: Yeah.

MR: Yeah, might be an advantage.

DA: Because that’s how you’ll get it. Yeah.

MR: That might be an opportunity for creative directors, creative direction for AI might be an interesting training for those who don’t have that, who are doers, right? Because the doers are the ones that are in trouble because if you just do production that can be maybe mostly replaced unless you have some really unique skill. But yeah, that.

DA: Yeah.

DA: You’ll be in a much better place if you know how to direct.

MR: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, if you think about the high end, we go back to the high end example. There’s direction in there. There’s creative direction. You’re also directing, depending on what level you’re doing it at, you know, you’re trying to create an experience, but you’re defining what is happening. And you’re also in the room. You’re probably doing research if it’s a new topic to understand that space so you can accurately represent what they’re talking about. So they don’t look at that, working, say, like, what the heck is he talking about? Like, doesn’t make sense.

DA: Well, there’s also a parallel here to the example that I’m giving and it’s going to be an uncomfortable one for people. Early in my career, I remember the, I had a light bulb moment. It was like, these designers are better than me. And so I realized my talent was in making that, you know, getting even better results from them and being an intermediary with clients, right? Which is what a creative director does.

And so it’s, I’m kind of having a little bit of a deja vu with AI, but it’s scary because you have to say like, this is smarter than me or can do X, Y, and Z better than me. And so it’s the same thing. Like why would you compete with it on that level versus direct it and where you can actually elevate it, but only if you figure out how to work with it.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: yeah it kind of moves it to a different stratosphere than it could with if you didn’t have those skills or direction skills to you know know like a lot of it is knowing what to refine and like you’re working on a deadline too right so what can I divine within the time frame that I have available what’s going to be most impactful like I could spend all kinds of time because the brush isn’t quite as textury as I want so am I going to spend five hours getting the brush textury

maybe not this round maybe that’s a future thing that I do for the whole model so that everyone that comes after has that thing but maybe for this one it’s focusing on getting this metaphor right or tuning that thing which is you know more of again creative direction and decision-making it’s really interesting any other thoughts for someone who is in that place you’ve given some great stuff I want to make sure I don’t take away opportunities for other ideas if you have them

DA: Yeah.

DA: Well, I would say yes. I think a lot of what we’re talking about, at least for the past 15 minutes, has been more toward someone who’s either full-time or part-time, they’re doing the sketchnoting thing. You mentioned to me that you also connect with a lot of people who are getting over that hump of I’m not really a designer or like the baker, right? Give that example. Wow. If this is an area that you want to, could not be a better time.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Yeah.

DA: Now I picked up my book, right? And I showed the sketches. You can see like clear connection between a sketch and then the finishing, right? And I deliberately don’t make my sketches very involved because I know what the output is and I’m kind of working within the range that I want to work within. But let’s say you were that baker and you want to do visual, you know, like you want to do sketchnotes or whatever. Absolutely. You can put in something extremely crude, like stick figures.

MR: Hmm.

DA: And probably if you know what you want, to get back to the directing, you can probably get to some pretty great output. So there’s never been a better time. If this is an interest of yours, it’s the same thing with vibe coding. I mean, it’s like vibe noting. Have you used that term yet? I think you may want to use vibe noting in the future. That’s my gift to you. Vibe noting. Take it.

MR: Mm-hmm.

No, not yet. Vibe noting. Interesting. Free gift. All right.

DA: Take it, take it, and go forth.

MR: interesting that might be that hundred you know the hundred sketchnote challenge where you do every meeting in a week long event and you know you’re more of a creative director around a style that maybe that’s vibe noting

DA: Yeah. I mean, again, the Baker who draws stick figures, you know, they can absolutely, if they can figure out how to direct an AI and tell the AI what they want it to look like, they can get the output they’re looking for. 100%.

MR: especially with this I mean the thing I think what’s unique about your approach is a lot of LLMs depend on you describing, you’re typing and trying to describe what’s in your mind, you’re at an advantage by going to the next level which is you’re drawing what you exactly want so the LLM or the tool actually has a reference that it’s building some framework against instead of

guessing every time you hit it with that prompt right you’re giving it structure because it seems like AIs do better when they’re given tight structure and are highly defined than open world kind of stuff you know

DA: Right, and our friend Dan Roam probably wouldn’t like this, but theoretically, to use the Baker example, you could do the stick figure with the house and then show it to Dan Roam and say, hey, could you have a look roughly in the ballpark of this style? And then when you kind of figure out how you get that to look like, you already said this, you can then feed it back into the AI and say, I want it to look like this again and again and again. You can create whatever and it’s not going to look exactly like Dan Roam, it’s going to look like some kind of merger between the direction that you’re giving it and the references that you’re giving it.

MR: Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

MR: Well I mean ChatGPT can do Studio Ghibli stuff already right so I mean it’s been done, I’ve obviously force fed it a ton of comics apparently and could be done for anyone. I think you even in your tool, your vibe coded tool, you’ve done your voice right so you can have it read to us right so I mean if it can do it with a voice yeah so that’s really interesting

DA: I did. That’s right. It’s pretty close. Yeah. But again, now the risk with that though, is that this is why I do try to, again, there’s something about the level of control I give to my sketches. It does help me get to that. That feels like Armano. And if you’re going to do what I just described as like the Baker, you’re emulating, you are in that middle ground area because it’s going to feel like somebody else’s work.

MR: yeah yeah you really kind of need to develop a style in that case that’s really I mean this whole this is going to be a continuing discussion for many years probably beyond you know we’ll be long gone when they’ll still be having discussions about this who knows where it will end up going and so we’ll see but it’s really fascinating to talk and hear thank you for the strategies for people who are listening or watching and trying to figure this thing out and how they think about it

DA: Yeah, it’s not gonna be as vulnerable.

MR: I’m really, so we’ve talked a little bit about process. I want to get a little bit into, and we’ve started to step into this, tips for someone who is listening, they’re a creative person, they do visual stuff. But maybe they’re kind of stuck in a rut or they’re just bummed out or whatever the reason they need a little inspiration from you, David. What would be three tips you would give them to maybe get their mojo back or get them a little bit more on track or maybe look at things differently if you were to offer that?

DA: Well, ironically, I found myself in a little bit of a rut, not a couple of times. I’m doing the thing that you’re probably reading articles about telling you not to do, which is don’t use your AI as your therapist or even your career coach.

Here’s why they tell you that because absolutely AI is sycophantic and will absolutely tell you what you want to hear as a default. But I will say this, I’ve learned you can push it. If you’re really, really clear with it, it’s kind of the same thing of like, I get what I want. It’s the same thing. It’s like, I get what I want in my visuals. I have been using, and it’s not.

The only thing, I mean, I talked to my wife and you whatever, like, so you obviously like, you feel like, but I will say I have had pretty good luck with AI helping me get unstuck and I can even compare it. There’s at one point I worked with a career coach, real accomplished guy. He was just building his hours and I’m like, yeah, I’ll sign up and it was great, but I’m even comparing that experience to sort of like now getting stuck and now I don’t have access to a human career coach.

I find myself like yesterday, I did something that I got some counsel on from my AI and I was like, okay, that was really good. Like that was actually good advice. I have to be really selective. So I would say if you feel confident that you know yourself well enough, that you could get what you want out of it, that could be one thing. The second is, gosh, I was just talking to Noa Hanley.

MR: No, I don’t know her.

DA: Oh, she’s an author. We had just had a great conversation about intentionality. And I was talking about how I went from the shift from using my iPad to even just like getting a scribe to just pair back. For me, I didn’t need the iPad because I didn’t want to, again, I have the developed process but going to a scribe

has been helping me like it feels like paper, like a Remarkable, gives me the best worlds of digital and analog and strips it down to where I feel like I could be more intentional with it versus an iPad. But I think anything that you can do, that’s an example in visual thinking, but even just like going for walks and giving yourself the breaks. I think our number one nemesis these days is just

MR: Mm. Mm-hmm.

MR: Hmm.

DA: all the technology and distractions that take away from our ability to be intentional with our time. Ironically, yeah, ironically, you’re hearing this from an engineer, but it’s not just engineers. It’s like when you’ll find in vibe coding or in working with AI, it moves so fast. It’s almost like, I had another revelation about this. It almost acts like another, like if you’re in Slack too long or you’re multitasking, you’re not in flow.

MR: Yeah, intentional and present probably, right?

MR: Hmm.

DA: that you can, when you’re spending time multitasking with AIs and doing all these different things, it almost puts you in a state of what is the opposite of flow.

MR: I think it’s, I’ve read an article, there’s an article I read about this last week, it called it puts you in brain fry where your brain basically gets fried and you have to step away yeah

DA: Yes. Yes. Yes. So you have to be mindful about that, that that’s now another thing that we have to deal with, like this brain fry versus being in flow. Yeah, I mean, now if I were just to sort of distill down to one thing, I would say out of all of this, or maybe two things, figure out ways where you can be intentional about all these new emerging tools and then find ways to be

memorable, experiential, distinct, find ways that you can own it and really lean into, like it’s great that we’re doing a podcast as a remote. I think there’s so many awesome things, but you know what? If there’s opportunity where we meet in person or, you know, like that’s really, it’s more important than it’s ever been.

MR: different.

MR: Yeah, I think I’ve been feeling the same way leaning into in-person and human things that you’re talking about here and that definitely helps. You know, we work in tech, both of us, so it’s real easy to kind of get seduced into just staying there, but I think you have to push yourself out. So for sure, that’s really great. Well, thanks for the tips.

Where would be the best place to find you? I guess davidbydesign.com. Is that the, or no, it’s davidarmano.com, yeah.

DA: Yeah, go to davidarmano.com, it will take you to the Substack. And then there’s davidarmano.me, or I always tell people, something I did right in my early years. You can ask about me in your AI of choice and I will show up in all of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yes.

MR: Okay.

MR: Interesting. Interesting. Is that like AISCO kind of a thing or something? Or just partly because you’ve been around for so long, right? Yeah.

DA: My legacy SEO was strong enough to get me in all the AI engines. Yeah.

MR: I think I’ve heard someone reach out to me and said that they discovered my book through their ChatGPT or something. So probably the same thing, you know, just having, we have the advantage of being old. So we’ve been around long enough to develop these histories.

DA: I bet.

DA: It’s like an AARP card, right? It’s like, we got something out of it.

MR: yeah exactly you get the free wallet or whatever they’re trying to pitch you now

DA: We got the AI AIO.

MR: There we go. Well, David, thanks so much for making time for me and chatting about this. I think it’s going to be encouraging for people and hopefully opening some minds and getting people thinking about like, what is this tool and how can I use it in an interesting way to set myself apart? Because I think there’s definitely opportunities if you think of it that way, rather than being afraid, because afraid doesn’t get you anywhere. You just don’t do anything. So, you know, move forward. So thank you.

DA: Thanks for having me, Mike. And I appreciate that you’ve been doing this for years. It’s a great community that you’ve built.

MR: Yeah.

MR: Well thank you, and there’s a lot of people involved besides me so I have to give credit to everybody and it’s definitely a friendly welcoming community and you’re invited to come anytime you like if you want to go to Verona this year we’re going to have an event on the weekend so anybody who’s listening go check out International Sketchnote Camp is merging with European visual practitioners and putting on a thing in Verona like go to the city of Romeo and Juliet and hang out with cool people so

With that, it’s another episode. We’ll talk to you again in the next one. See you soon.

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

Sketchnote Lab Live May - Foundations: Drawing People

Mike Rohde — Mon, 25 May 2026 19:57:21 GMT

People are one of the most useful and most intimidating things to draw. In this session, we’ll break it down into two parts so you can start simple and build toward more expressive, dynamic figures.

When: Saturday, May 30, from 12:00 PM - 1:00 PM CDT

Cost: Free to attend

Sign up: Luma Event signup page

Mike Rohde will kick things off by showing you how to draw people using simple shapes and structures. No art school required, just practical approaches you can use immediately in your sketchnotes, presentations, and visual notes.

Special guest will take it further, teaching you how to add movement, gesture, and fluidity to your figures. You’ll learn how to make your drawn people feel alive on the page, not stiff or static.

What you’ll walk away with: A process for drawing people quickly, starting from the simplest possible forms and building toward figures with energy and personality. Whether you’re capturing a speaker at a conference or mapping out a team scenario, you’ll have techniques you can put to work right away.

Attend the Lab for free

The session is free to all subscribers, with the recorded replay video available exclusively to Supporting and Founding Lab Partners (which includes all video replays since December 2024).

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

Sarah Greer & Adrian Peryer: Rethinking Meetings — S1/E3

Mike Rohde — Tue, 19 May 2026 13:02:50 GMT

In this episode, I sit down with Sarah Greer and Adrian Peryer, co-founders of Shared Vision Toolkit, to talk about how they’ve spent decades transforming ordinary meetings into immersive, co-creative experiences.

We dig into their Design-Centric Facilitation™ approach, the magic of a well-designed room, why 80% of the work happens before anyone walks through the door, and how visual thinking helps build genuine alignment within organizations.

Listen to the episode:

Running Order

Introduction to transforming meetings into immersive, collaborative experiences
The role of environment: whiteboards, lighting, and space design
The extensive preparation process: months of research and iteration
Using questions and frameworks to guide co-creative sessions
The magic of walking into a thoughtfully designed room
The impact of immersive environments on productivity and engagement
Redesigning weekly meetings to maintain freshness and effectiveness
Icebreakers and humor: building trust and vulnerability
The power of visual listening and capture techniques
Navigating virtual environments and building shared spaces online
Case studies: product feedback sessions, strategic off-sites, and re-purposing physical spaces
The origin story: from initial practices inside HP to scaling across tech giants
The importance of leadership sponsorship and organizational culture
Capability transfer: training clients to sustain practices
Making tools affordable and accessible for broader impact
Practical tips for listeners: navigating creative challenges, challenging oneself, and seeking inspiration outside work
Setting up environments to sustain flow and energy
The journey of scaling practices, including the transition from corporate parent to independence
Embracing chaos and turning moments of disruption into opportunities

Resources & Links

Sponsored by The Reflective Travel Workshop

Have you ever wanted to create travel sketchnotes from an experience you’ve had, just using the photos and memories you’ve got?

This 2-hour recorded video includes a set of downloadable, printable sketching templates and a process to kickstart your own travel sketchnoting practice.

All this for just $20.

Subscribe to the Sketchnote Podcast

You can subscribe to the podcast through iTunes, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or your favorite podcast listening source.

Support the Podcast

To support the creation, production, and hosting of the Sketchnote Army Podcast, buy one of Mike Rohde’s bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off!

Episode Transcript

Mike Rohde: Hey everyone, it’s Mike Rohde and I’m here with my friends Sarah and Adrian. Sarah, Adrian, thanks for being on the show.

Sarah Greer: Hey, thanks for having us, Mike. Before we ever say anything, I really wanna thank you for doing this podcast. I’ve listened to just about every single one of them. I think I told you this before. I’m working out at the gym with my weights and stuff, and I just love it as a practitioner in this field. I’ve gotten so much out of all of the very diverse people that you’ve talked to, and it’s just amazing. Thank you so much.

Adrian Peryer: And we sometimes talk, Mike, we talk about the episodes we’ve listened to.

MR: Well, thank you. Yeah, we have a really fascinating community. Really interesting people that came from all kinds of strange places, which is like the most fun part. So, maybe we just get right into it — Sarah and Adrian, tell us who you are and what you do. We’ll do Sarah then Adrian, just so we have a standard order.

SG: Excellent. So we are Shared Vision Toolkit. We’re basically designers of meetings. We design super engaging meetings for folks all over the world. We mostly work in the tech space. We’ve been doing this for such a long time now. We believe so wholeheartedly in this methodology that what we really needed to do was teach other people how to do it. Because we see people all the time getting stuck in the default mode — turn up, have slides, chairs and tables. What we do is the complete opposite. We work with our clients to design agendas and create these amazing immersive environments for clients to come and spend a day or two days with us. We take away the tables, use rolling chairs, have floor-to-ceiling panels we turn into whiteboards, and create frameworks depending on the type of meeting.

MR: Interesting. Adrian, anything to add?

AP: What people don’t see is probably 80% of the effort isn’t in the meeting. These things take minimum three months from concept, sometimes six months. We interview customers — we do voice-of-customer reports, anonymous interviews. We’re regarded as Switzerland neutral. Because of that, we get to spend most of our time in deep preparation. Then of course, whatever we plan doesn’t actually happen because reality meets your plan. But we always go in with a detailed hypothesis for every session. We love to work with questions — what question are we trying to answer? Then frameworks to help people explore it together.

MR: The image that came to me was an iceberg — you see the tip, but there’s a lot underneath. I imagine a lot of the planning is not only research, but contingency planning too. If this happens, go to plan C.

AP: And the process of designing for clients is itself a forcing function. Sometimes the value is in preparing for the session and realizing you shouldn’t do the session.

SG: We work with electrostatic white gridded paper — Magic Whiteboard — in 66-foot lengths. We draw the base layer structure right on it. Adrian pushed me to make everything modular, and he was absolutely right. If I allow 10 feet for a conversation and it takes 12, I can just move the header over. The modularity really lends itself to this type of work.

MR: I imagine for people who go through this experience it must feel like magic — you thought of that, you know about that — because you’ve done all the research and the back-channel discussions.

AP: The magic starts when people walk into the room. Most people’s experience of meetings is they normally suck. They walk into our room — no tables, these wonderful walls Sarah’s prepared, frameworks and art, thoughtful lighting. People come in and go, “wow.” The second time they’re invited, they never have a problem attending. We find the environment, the immersive space, the absence of tables — all of it helps people move rapidly into a flow state and stay there for hours. The facilitator says time’s up and people go, “what?”

MR: Right — you may not be able to do the six-to-nine-month planning every time, but for recurring meetings, why couldn’t you plan all these things until they become routine?

AP: That regular meeting is the hardest thing in our view. Sarah and I looked at our own weekly meeting and said, isn’t it getting a little stale? And we realized — aren’t we meant to be the people with the mission to make meetings engaging? So we designed our own weekly meeting and keep redesigning it. We measure it. We do an after-action review. The big aha is meetings go stale very easily.

SG: We always kick off every meeting with an icebreaker, and we rotate who hosts. We’ve been cataloging the best ones and plan to give them away. Icebreakers that take people back to their childhood are the best — a few layers of the onion just get peeled back immediately.

MR: I can relate — I do sketchnote workshops and I made up an exercise called The Treehouse Exercise. People love it because it’s personal and lets them express themselves freely. It’s been in my workshop hundreds of times and it keeps working.

SG: The minute you said treehouse I was transported back to Girl Scout Camp. Icebreakers that take people back to childhood just work. There’s something about it that sets a great tone — people are being a little vulnerable with each other.

AP: And we’re on a virtual meeting right now. We have people in the UK, California, Ohio. In 2020 all our work evaporated in a couple of weeks.

SG: Within a week or two I was set up in my studio using my iPad to record myself capturing on the wall. We just carried on.

AP: Our customers still wanted to do customer advisory boards. How do you do that virtually? One tech company needed to do a big transformation — a virtual leadership off-site with a new team who’d never met physically. We worked with them for about six months, doing town halls and things. Sarah built a shared vision with that team and then animated it.

SG: They had a racetrack metaphor for their team. I figured out the animation feature in Procreate — cars zooming around the track, people in the stands waving as they went by. It wasn’t difficult, but they were just so tickled with it.

AP: Now when people come to us needing a virtual product advisory board on short notice, we can do it. What holds it together is the live visualization — as people talk, Sarah’s picture gets richer and bigger. We did two hours yesterday, 30 customers for a large tech company, 15 product managers. The product space is very early — nobody really knows what problem they’re solving. But the live capture held it all together.

SG: I was using Concepts. I make these feedback buckets — just a pretty bucket — and as customers speak, I synthesize and capture the essence. To me, that magic is demonstrating the deepest form of active listening. You don’t have to be an artist. You just need decent listening skills, and they’ll get better. Find a flip chart and start capturing what people are saying. You’d be surprised.

MR: There’s almost a spatial, positional thing that ties meaning and solidity to it — rather than a fleeting stream. I once claimed a little strip of a room for a project and the whole project lived in that room. I’d bring people in and they’d say, “I’m inside the project.”

AP: We did a session with engineering leaders in a large tech company — security engineering. A year later, they said, “we’ve still got the vision up on the wall in the engineering department. It’s our orientation.” Another client — an energy company CEO we’ve worked with for 12 years — booked a hallway for six weeks so all leaders could be walked through the strategy in context of the space. That’s what they wanted: walk and explain the strategic outcomes, the vision, the from-to journey, the key initiatives — all laid out where you can see everything at once.

MR: The client was so convinced of your process that they’d already thought through where it would happen and what the follow-on use would be.

AP: Two years later they reached out about an AI strategy session. The first thing they said was, “we’ve got a really good space to do this.”

SG: That just raised the bar on us. I think of it like a mission control — if we could just get more clients to build these spaces and leave them up, it’s so powerful.

MR: Being a really good listener is an intimacy. For someone who maybe is never listened to, finally somebody is — and it’s seen as valuable. That’s what we can do as visualizers for our clients.

SG: I love that. When Adrian and I work as a team, he can focus on facilitating and I can focus on designing and synthesizing — center justifying, making bullet points, coming up with an icon that represents what’s being talked about. We had a brand new client a couple weeks ago. They came in visibly nervous. By the end of two days, there was hugging. It’s a connectedness people are yearning for. I always say a little prayer: please let me be of service to this group today, that they can feel heard and make connections they haven’t been able to make before.

MR: Teams that were most effective were the ones aligned and all going for the same thing — 10 people working like 30 because they were aligned and integrated.

AP: Alignment is sometimes the result of managing through conflict. Leadership teams are not all on the same page — they have legitimate, opposing points of view. Putting people together in a space where they can say, how could we make the pie bigger differently? What is the win-win? That takes time and effort. Getting aligned on a shared vision for a product is one of the single most important activities a team can do. Using pens and whiteboards, you can figure out a lot of the hard stuff before you spend millions building out software and hardware.

MR: How did this all start? Tell me the origin story.

AP: Hewlett Packard bought EDS and merged it into their services division. They said, can you have a look at this interesting thing EDS does — a British company called Group Partners with a neat way of visualizing and working collaboratively with customers. We said, can you build one of those practices inside our company? We had CEO Meg Whitman sponsoring it. She quickly figured out that collaborating live with customers was what was needed. We got the mandate: set up a global practice, scale it. Sarah came in as one of many talented artists. It grew and scaled.

MR: And then eventually you left HP?

AP: Nothing lasts forever in tech. They split the company up. Sarah and I went independent. A group went to Amazon and set up another practice there — still running, very successful. We’ve been doing this now for getting onto 18 years.

MR: Have you ever had a customer intentionally bring you in to teach them to do this internally?

SG: Yes — sometimes we’ll do an advisory board and stay an extra day, leave all the content up, walk through the facilitation, talk about how we captured and why we prepared what we prepared. Those days after are fantastic.

AP: We call it Capability Transfer. We’ve built multiple courses for customers — how as an executive can you be a really effective contributor to an advisory board, for example. We also pivoted from trying to sell the whole practice guide to offering small, affordable technique modules. And we’ve gone from enterprise sales to asking, how do we make this affordable for anyone? Our latest is a culture diagnostic survey tool built in partnership with Professor Ron Westrum — $4.95 per person. Team of ten, less than $50.

SG: Culture is always coming up, especially now with AI. Cultures that aren’t generative are struggling and lagging behind.

MR: Let’s get practical. Three tips for someone listening — maybe they work in a company, maybe they’re a graphic recorder or sketchnoter. What would you tell them?

SG: First: learn to navigate the shitties. We did a Pixar course and they talked about this — the creative process is a roller coaster, and when you hit the downside, just hang in there. Go for a walk. It’s always darkest before the dawn. Second: challenge yourself often. I got an iPad and threw myself into the deep end — a week later I was doing live orals for a big tech company virtually. I just recently got into Mental Canvas, which is really hard, but that’s the point. Third: find inspiration outside your daily practice. Go to museums, plays, musicals. Get fresh eyes. For me it’s crawling around on the floor with my grandson — looking at the world at a completely different level.

AP: First: set the environment up right for yourself. Figure out what will get you and others into flow state more often. Second: find your wise mind every day. Try to be balanced, check your ego at the door. Sarah talked me into yoga and it’s the single best thing for helping me start each day in the right mode. Third: remember that emotions are a wave — they will pass. Under pressure, when you feel like it didn’t work, pause. It will get better.

MR: Six tips for the price of one. Where’s the best place to find you?

SG: SharedVisionToolkit.com, and we’re both fairly active on LinkedIn. We also have a podcast on culture and a YouTube channel.

MR: Well, thanks so much you two. This has been a fun surprise — we went a little off the rails and I loved every minute of it. My tip for today: when things go sideways, ask what’s interesting about this, because there are opportunities in that chaos.

SG: Thank you so much, Mike. Your podcast is food for the soul. Keep making them.

MR: Thanks — I’m planning on it. Until next time, talk to you soon.

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

Danny Gregory: Art with a Lowercase 'a' — S1/E2

Mike Rohde — Tue, 12 May 2026 13:29:19 GMT

In this episode, I sit down with Danny Gregory, artist, author, and co-founder of Sketchbook Skool, to talk about how a personal tragedy late in his advertising career became the catalyst for a whole new creative life.

We dig into his philosophy of art with a lowercase ‘a’, why constraints and personal projects are the best way to push through plateaus, and how travel journaling can deepen your experience of place while building your artistic voice.

Listen to the episode:

Running Order

Introducing Danny Gregory and his approach to accessible art
Danny’s shift from advertising to personal drawing practice
The life-changing event that inspired Danny’s artistic journey
The therapeutic role of drawing and storytelling in life challenges
Recognizing style and personality in beginner artists
Developing Sketchbook Skool and its mission to democratize art
The concept of travel journaling and capturing memories in sketchbooks
Using constraints and personal projects to foster growth
How travel influences perception and the importance of experiencing place
Travel storytelling and how sketching enhances the experience
Overcoming plateaus: beginner’s mind and trying new things
Rethinking practice: applying skills through projects and constraints
The value of frequency, variety, and embracing life’s unpredictability in drawing
Final thoughts: making art accessible and inclusive for all

Resources & Links

Sketchbook Skool- Danny’s online creativity and drawing school
Paris in a Day - A live workshop with Danny on Saturday, May 16th! Save 15% with coupon code SKETCHNOTE
Sketchbook Skool (Danny’s YouTube Channel)
I Drew Across America - See Danny’s sketchbook unfold as he and his wife drove across America.
Danny Gregory’s Weekly Essays
Book: The Illustrated Life — by Danny Gregory
Book: The Creative License — by Danny Gregory
Book: Art Before Breakfast — by Danny Gregory

Sponsored by The Reflective Travel Workshop

Have you ever wanted to create travel sketchnotes from an experience you’ve had, just using the photos and memories you’ve got?

This 2-hour recorded video includes a set of downloadable, printable sketching templates and a process to kickstart your own travel sketchnoting practice.

All this for just $20.

Watch: Building a sketchnote header for Packers vs. Eagles Wildcard game

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Episode Transcript

Mike Rohde: Hey everybody, it’s Mike Rohde. I’m here with Danny Gregory. Danny, it’s so good to have you on the show. Thanks for making it.

Danny Gregory: Great, I’m glad to be here.

MR: Yeah, it’s I’ve been a huge fan of yours for a long time. I don’t know when I came across your work, probably on YouTube, I would guess. But I really liked your attitude toward simple drawing. I am the same way, feel similar about it. I see all these people that say I can’t draw. So my mission in life is getting people to do one step forward and draw like just basic stuff. And I think you sort of take over after that, or you’re probably doing the same thing, but you then

push them further. And I love the way that you approach this. And I thought you’d be a great guest to have on the show.

DG: Great, I’m looking forward to it.

MR: So I’m kind of curious, we always start out like, who are you and what do you do? I think I have an idea, but I don’t know that I totally do. So I’m kind of curious myself to know all the things that you do. So why don’t you start there and tell us a little bit about yourself.

DG: Sure, so right now my job has been for the last dozen years or so, I’m the founder of Sketchbook Skool and we’re an online art school. It’s changed in various ways over the years, but basically it’s designed to focus on drawing in a sketchbook, watercoloring in a sketchbook, lettering, expressing yourself, but just taking a sketchbook from being a sort of a preliminary thing.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: to being an art form because I, and I’ve published about a dozen books now that are kind of around this idea. So one of them is called The Illustrated Life, which is about, I went to some of my favorite artists and I just made a book about their sketchbooks as kind of the final art. And then I did one on travel journaling as well called An Illustrated Journey, which is people who keep great travel journals, which is an art form I really love.

MR: Hmm.

DG: And then I have also written a couple of different visual memoirs and I wrote a book called How to Draw Without Talent, which is also the name of one of our courses. And I wrote another book called Art Before Breakfast, which is about how do you make art if you have no time? How can you like fit it into your life? So I’m a writer and I’m also, you know, a guy who draws.

MR: Hmm.

MR: Yeah.

MR: Hmm.

DG: And I have a YouTube channel. I have about a half a million subscribers and I make videos about drawing, about not drawing and about various things in between, and I write an essay every week on a thing called Danny’s Essays, which is about the creative life, about the things that get in our way or the weirdness of it or just advice on it. And I’ve been.

MR: That’s great.

DG: I’ve been blogging for more than 20 years, but before that I was in advertising and I was an executive creative director at a couple of big ad agencies in New York. And so I spent, I don’t know, 30 years being a copywriter in advertising and working on lots of different kinds of accounts. So I understand the sort of the creative life.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: and the creative life as I experience it, what it’s like to have clients, what it’s like to come up with ideas on demand and how to produce ideas, because I did a lot of like Super Bowl commercials on down to small space print ads. So I’ve done, I have a lot of experience in that arena. And yeah, so that’s who I was and that’s who I am.

MR: Mm.

MR: That’s really interesting. There are some parallels. I worked as a graphic designer as my former life and worked with ad agencies in Milwaukee, smaller ad agencies. But I always remember this is back in the day pre-computer. So a lot of my work was sketching and the art director that really liked my work because he would give me an idea in the morning and I would have like a ton of sketches by the afternoon that he could then filter through and like that one, that one, and then we would do the production.

So that was really fun. I have, there’s some crossover there. I didn’t really get into the advertising world too much other than that. It was more in the graphic design world, but it’s really interesting to think about. I always think about Mad Men, of course. Now you came a little bit after that, but still I’m sure there was some of that culture that existed in New York City, right?

DG: Yeah, I mean, I came, I started my career at the kind of the end of the three martini lunch. But, you know, I certainly, you know, I don’t really understand the way advertising is functioning these days. I know, but I think it’s a very different experience than it was. You know, I was there during really at the heyday. People represent Edmund as sort of the heyday. But to me, to be able to spend millions and millions of

MR: Okay.

MR: Yeah.

DG: of other people’s money to make my ideas come to life. I think that that’s increasingly less the case now. But when I started out in advertising, I graduated from college with a degree in political science and I had been an intern at the White House. I had worked for my congressman and I had no interest in politics. From that point of view, I had no interest in being an academic. I’d grown up in a family of academics.

MR: Wow.

DG: And I had been the editor of my school paper, but I didn’t want to be a journalist. So I kind of had no real career path besides being a guy who could write and make stuff. So I blundered into advertising and I started my career doing that without any training or preparation. And in those days you could do that. Now you have to have gone to ad school and so forth. But I, you know,

MR: Yeah.

DG: When I was in advertising, you could just be a guy, you know? And so that was, as a creative person, there weren’t that many things that you could do for a living. Now there’s a million things that you can do for a living and you can be entrepreneurial and you can express your creativity in a million ways. But in those days, it was kind of like, you go into advertising, you could go into graphic design, which really wasn’t as much of a thing as it became.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: And I don’t know, you could maybe go into working in entertainment, but that I had no idea how to do that. Yeah, so it was a great business to be in and I really enjoyed it. And I kind of left as I started to see increasingly the power of sort of interactive technology in general, but also seeing that

MR: Yeah, music or something maybe. Yeah.

DG: advertising agencies were no longer at the forefront and that clients were going to lots of other places to get ideas and to get execution. So I remember working, I was working for a big oil company as my client and we went and had a meeting at the New York Times and they showed us some of the things that they were doing on the web that an ad agency could never have come up with, could never have executed, way too slow. And I thought,

MR: Hmm.

DG: there’s no way that this business is going to keep up with that. And so, you know, I had been really interested in online technology for a long time. IBM was my client for a long time as well. And I had built my first website probably in the mid nineties. And I really love that world. But I remember when I first started to get really interested in it and,

MR: Hmm.

DG: other creative people would say to me, why are you bothering with that? You can’t laminate it and put it in your portfolio. So what, like, what are you going to do if you make something, who’s going to see it? And I was like, I don’t know. It’s really fun. It’s really interesting. Plus kind of nobody’s paying attention. So I love to write long copy and you could write a website. I mean, I wrote websites with linking text that would take you to other pages. And that would, as a writer, that was just.

MR: Mm.

DG: amazing as opposed to trying to just write one paragraph that would go in a print ad. So, you know, I always thought the advertising business as it’s now constructed doesn’t get it. And I need to sort of try other stuff. So I ended up quitting and I wasn’t really sure what the hell I was going to do. And I kind of stumbled into what I do now because I had started to draw in my late thirties and

MR: Ha ha.

DG: that kind of opened everything up for me in a new direction.

MR: What spurred you to start drawing in your 30s? Was it frustration with work? Or you just remembered what it was like when you were a kid? I’m kind of curious how that happened. What was the...

DG: So when I was 37 or so, 38, my wife, my son had just been born. He was nine months old. And my wife who worked in the fashion business was going to work and she, we lived in New York and she fell onto the tracks and the subway train ran over her. And it broke her back and paralyzed her. She was a paraplegic.

for the rest of her life. And I was on a photo shoot and I was working on this big campaign and the police came and got me, went to the hospital. And basically from one minute to the next, our whole life changed. Our whole path that we had been on, all my attitude towards my career and where we were going, everything changed. And I had to cope with it. My wife had to cope with it.

And so she kind of adjusted to her new life and she carried on with it. But for me, I was just in my head. I was just a mess. I couldn’t. I just lost my sense of meaning, purpose. It was like the ultimate sort of midlife crisis. And I just wasn’t sure what I was doing with myself. And I went and I looked for meaning in books and met with priests and.

MR: Hmm.

DG: rabbis and various things. I was just really on a quest. And then one day I had this impulse to go into my bathroom with a piece of paper and draw the contents of my medicine cabinet. And I hadn’t really drawn since I was in high school. And I mean, I had doodled, you know, when you’re in advertising, you draw an idea, whatever, but I hadn’t really, yeah, I had never really tried to do a drawing for any other purpose. So I did this drawing and

MR: Yeah, functional stuff.

DG: For the first time, I just felt this like sense of calm. I felt grounded. I felt present in the moment. I wasn’t worrying about stuff. And so I started to just draw kind of stuff. And I had a sketchbook with me and I would just take it around with me and I would just draw my life, you know. And this process of drawing and writing about what I was doing helped me to see the purpose and beauty of my life, you know, to see.

MR: Mmm.

DG: life in New York, see my family, my home and to draw these things. And you know, again, I didn’t really know how to draw. I hadn’t taken art lessons, but I was just, I’m just going to draw this thing. I’m going to look at it and I’m going to draw it. And so I just fell in love with doing that. And I did it sort of at lunch. I did it as I walked to work. I would stop. If I saw an interesting building, I would draw it, you know, in the evening when I was hanging out with my family, when watching TV, whatever, I would just.

draw stuff and I would fill pages with lots of little drawings in a kind of a collage style with little sentences and quips and stuff like that and sometimes lettering and I would just fill these pages and it’s kind of what you do but I was doing, I kind of came to it from this other direction because I wasn’t doing drawings to have drawings, you know. I was doing drawings to be drawing, you know, because being drawing was

MR: Mm. Mm-hmm.

MR: Mm-hmm.

Different perspective, yeah.

MR: Hmm.

DG: was my therapy and you know, and then I, the more I did it, the better I got at it. The more comfortable I was with it, but you know, I’ve basically been doing it for 30 years now, starting with that thing. It’s just become this thing that I,

MR: Hmm. Wow. Wow. Just that one impulse like changed your life.

DG: Yeah, so I ended up, yeah, so I did, I wrote a book called Everyday Matters, which was about this experience that I just described to you, how my life was transformed there. And then that became, then I did another book called The Creative License, which was kind of about how do I teach people to think like this? And how do I do a thing that I encountered a lot with advertising people, which was, you know, you mentioned art directors hiring you to do drawings.

MR: Okay.

MR: Mm.

DG: there are a lot of art directors who can’t draw or who don’t draw. And, you know, I was just encountering a lot of creative people who weren’t really very creative. You know, they were, they knew how to function in an ad agency, but they kind of didn’t do anything else creatively. And they, their world was kind of the world of advertising award annuals and advertising trade magazines. And my world was like, I don’t know,

MR: Yeah.

Mm.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: books and going to museums and going to galleries and looking at art. I just didn’t, I didn’t particularly care about advertising as a creative thing. It just felt like pretty low grade to me compared to the things that great graphic designers do. There were just higher levels of things. So, and I think I wrestled also with the idea of like, am I allowed to really be creative? Because I’m not going to be an artist. I’m not going to like quit my career to go and paint in a garret somewhere.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: So how does this fit in? And I had a little kid, I had a disabled wife, I had a pretty intense career. So how do I do any of this stuff? But I knew that I needed to do it. I needed to do it to be able to deal with all of this stuff. So I just found ways to do it, to integrate it with what I was doing. So that’s, anyway, that’s yeah.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: pretty cool. That’s really cool. You know, finding like, I think the perspective that I like is finding little slots of time where you can do this, right? It sounds like it wasn’t, like you said, you’re not going to quit your job and go and paint somewhere. And I think I kind of got a sense there are people that are creative or could be creative and they just, this is why I have the statement in my books. It’s ideas, not art. It’s not that art is bad or that we shouldn’t do it. It’s like, I think there’s

a ton of baggage tied to art. And so it’s like, either you’re an artist or you’re nothing. Like there’s no gradient in between it in that thinking. I kind of wanted to push people to say, well, you know, the first step is you can draw these little symbols and draw something and express yourself. That’s a form of creativity, but it’s functional, right? It moves you to the next step or whatever. And then there’s a whole gradient all the way up to being an amazing artist. You could be somewhere in between.

And then I think the other thing I like, and the thing that I see in your work is even though you were not trained per se, is your stuff has a style. When I see it, that’s Danny Gregory. Like I didn’t even have a second thought when I see your work because now I know it, I spot it. No, because it’s just, I don’t know, it’s the way that you, I find it really attractive. Someone else that you remind me of, maybe you know this guy, Tommy Kane. He’s also in New York City. He sort of has a really.

DG: Because it’s bad, yeah.

DG: So Tommy Kane is my best friend. He and I worked together in advertising for 20 long years.

MR: Yeah, that’s right. He was also an advertising guy. He’s got a really unique style too. Like, and I wouldn’t say, you know, you look at the work that you do, it doesn’t look the same, but it’s got kind of a, it’s related or something. Like, I don’t know the way you guys look at things and call them out on the page here, but I just love that. Like, and I think that’s what gets me excited when I encourage people to do sketchnoting and they, with the basic skills they have, and I see what they do. Like I start to see their personalities kind of sneak out a little bit.

DG: Yeah, he copies me. He copies me a lot.

Thank

MR: And it’s not, they’re not necessarily trained as artists, but they’re able to produce something. And I think when they get excited, that gets me excited. Right. So I think maybe in the same way, the kind of work you’re doing with Sketchbook Skool is the same, right? You’re getting people to just make that first step kind of like you did in your bathroom. How did, maybe talk a little bit about that, how you now shifted into Sketchbook Skool. Was that a pretty immediate thing that you started doing, or did it take a while to kind of figure out that, hey, this is kind of the school thing and I’m helping other people.

Obviously you’re writing books that seem like you were leading that direction. When did it actually like officially turn out for you?

DG: I said I started to draw probably in 96, 96, 97. And I published Everyday Matters in 2003. You know, six or seven years later, and I started Sketchbook Skool in 2014. So like 17 years later. So there’s a long distance between. And I started Sketchbook Skool when I left advertising. So I left advertising.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Okay. Okay.

Okay.

MR: Okay.

DG: And I was doing, I did a bit of freelance, but I was also like doing public speaking and I wrote another couple of books then. And I was interested in the idea of teaching online. This is like before it became the kind of thing it is now, 2014, yeah. And in 2012, I got my hands on a DSLR for the first time. And, you know, having spent all these years in advertising, filming stuff and suddenly realizing like I can actually.

MR: Yeah, yeah.

pretty early.

MR: Okay.

DG: film things with a DSLR that don’t look like they were shot with a VHS handy cam, but they look like at least 16 millimeter film and you know, you can get really beautiful images. So, and I had seen people teaching online and they had been like, it was a lot of like web cams, you know, and people who just didn’t know anything about presenting. They didn’t know anything about filming. And I thought, well, I know a lot about production.

MR: Yes.

MR: Production, yeah.

DG: And so I thought if I could teach online, I could. And my idea at the time was there’s a TV show called Chef’s Table, which is, you know, a big Netflix series that they did for a long time. And what was interesting to me about Chef’s Table is they took like the standard way of like talking about cooking, you know, which had been sort of going back to like Julia Child or something like that. It hadn’t really evolved much, but it was kind of like.

MR: Mm. I’ve heard of that. Yeah, yeah, Mm-hmm.

DG: have a camera above the person and they would be talking to a camera and that was kind of it. And Chef’s Table said we’re gonna make like documentaries about chefs. And so I thought, well, nobody’s really done that with art. Nobody’s really made like art classes or art documentaries that are like films, you know, couldn’t you do that? So that was how we started Sketchbook Skool, my partner who I had started with, she had been a photographer, she also was

MR: sort of cut back and forth.

Yeah, yeah.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: an illustrated journal keeper. And so we just started making films about artists that were filmed well and were good stories and stuff like that, as well as demos. But it wasn’t just about like, here’s a technique. It was more like, what would it be like to spend a day with an artist in their studio? What would that experience be like? What would the conversations be? What would they show you? Like they pull tools out and say,

MR: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Yeah.

DG: I use this watercolor brush or I like to draw this way. They would take some sketchbooks off the shelf and say, let me just show you some stuff that I did. And then they would do a demo, you know, kind of as part of it. So that was sort of our approach to making courses. And it was phenomenally successful right away. I mean, it sounds weird to say, but it was the point where I was like, wow, this is what I need to be doing. And so we, you know, I mean, we had.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Hmm.

MR: Yeah.

DG: we’ve had like 50,000 people have taken our classes now. And it just became a real phenomenon using lots of different sketchbook artists. That was kind of my thing. I want to bring sketchbook artists to people and make them understand that this is a thing. And it’s evolved since then, but that was really what the impetus was. For me, was I differ with you a little bit on the idea of a continuum.

MR: Wow.

MR: Hmm.

DG: because I’ve been interested in art with a lowercase a as opposed to art with a capital A. And so to me, art with a capital A is at the top, it’s like you’re a gallery artist in, you know, Chelsea in New York and you’re a conceptual person and you’re part of that whole world of dealers and collectors that has nothing to do with it. And then there’s the world of like, I guess, illustrators who are selling their art.

and people who are professionally trained and who make a living doing it. What I’m doing is different. I feel like I’m not trying to open a restaurant. I’m trying to make a tuna sandwich. And most people are afraid of making tuna sandwiches. Like, I’m not a, I have no talent for making a sandwich. And it’s like, yeah, you do. I mean, you don’t need talent to make a tuna sandwich and you don’t need talent to start drawing. And it isn’t because

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: you’re eventually going to quit your job and become a professional illustrator. That’s not the goal. The goal is to be a human being who expresses themselves and reacts to the world around them and is engaged with the world and with their imaginations. And it’s just part of life, just like it was when you were six. When you were six years old, every single six year old draws, that’s a given without exception. And none of them worry about talent.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Mm-hmm. Yep.

DG: None of them have any of these limitations and they’re not interested in developing a portfolio and they don’t give a damn what anybody else does. They just make art and you did that too. And it was so much fun and that’s how you learned about the world was by drawing it, you know, and eventually when you were nine, that all fell apart and you know, 1% of you ended up becoming, went to art school, but the rest of you were just like, forget it. I’m not, I have no talent.

And I just have this feeling constantly that there’s like a con that’s been played on all of us by, I don’t know if it’s like the art world or if it’s capitalism or what it is, but something has said to us, only special people can do this. And you’re absolutely forbidden from doing it in any way because you will suck at it. And that just seems so unfair that this thing has been taken away from us completely unnecessarily.

And it’s so much fun and so interesting and can take you anywhere. You can do so many things with it. Why aren’t we allowed to? And so that’s kind of been my sort of thing, the flag I walk around waving, which is like art for all. Like we can all do this and just do it. Even if it’s just taking notes and doing a drawing of, you know, just start there, why not?

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Yeah, yeah, that’s great. I love that. I love your attitude about that. And I don’t know what the big con is. I think partly I have a sense maybe education and pushing toward writing and then junior high school, you know, the battle of like, well, he’s better than me, so I’m just going to give up, probably a bunch of different things involved in it.

DG: Yeah, and also professionalizing everything. You know, it’s like a lot of things we learn in school, we don’t become professionals at it. We don’t become professional mathematicians and geographers and biologists, but we still learned it and we still, you know, it’s good to have. So like why is this thing taken away from us? And part of it is because the art world changed and also artists had it, it was in their interest and in gallerists’ interests to make it seem like this is a special thing that not everybody can do because.

MR: Yeah.

DG: If you want to sell something for millions of dollars, you can’t have made it yourself, right?

MR: It’s got to be exclusive. Yeah. It’s like, you know, diamonds, right? You know, diamonds are prolific, but if you control the access, suddenly they become really valuable, right? Similar kind of idea. Interesting. Well, you talk about some of these courses, the one that I saw most recently you’re promoting, I don’t know, depending on when this comes out, that might already be passed, but you’re talking about visiting Paris. I want you to talk a little bit about what’s your thinking about this, because I’m sure you’re going to do other ones like it.

DG: you

MR: I’m really curious how you’re approaching that and what the thinking is.

DG: So I love travel journaling and I think like when you go somewhere and you bring a sketchbook with you and you draw what you see and you write down notes about what you’re experiencing, you’re creating memories that you will have for the rest of your life. You’re burning it deep into your brain. And you think about when people go on vacation, they spend like $5,000, $10,000, whatever on a vacation. And then you come back and you have like a few photographs that you took, snapshots. Most people are not very good photographers.

MR: Yeah

DG: and they kind of like snap, snap, snap. So, you know, I feel like I’ve been on this mission to try to convince people to do this. One of the things that people say is, well, I’m with a bunch of people and they don’t draw. So what am I going to do? I don’t have time to do it, you know, or I’m not good enough to do it, or I don’t want other people looking at me and seeing what I’m doing and going like, what are you an artist now? You know, I don’t want to deal with any of that stuff. So, and it’s like, well, that’s.

MR: Ha ha.

DG: those are the kind of minor considerations and there are ways around them. But I can show you how to draw quickly. I can show you how to use photo reference, but yet capture things immediately. I can show you how to write your experience quickly. So that’s kind of the idea is let’s do a virtual trip to Paris and we’re gonna go for three hours. And in three hours, we’re gonna start in a cafe and then we’re gonna go to the Louvre and we’re gonna

look at the outside of the Louvre, we’re gonna go inside, we’re gonna look at some art, we’re gonna look at the Mona Lisa, we’re gonna see all the people taking snapshots. You know, go to the Mona Lisa and it’s like a room full of people taking pictures and there’s a tiny little painting way in the distance. So I’m gonna capture that experience, what it’s like to walk along the Seine, what it’s like to eat lunch in a cafe, and then we’re gonna go and visit the Eiffel Tower, we’re gonna just cover all of Paris, we’re gonna do it all in three hours. And you’re gonna...

MR: Yeah.

DG: draw quickly, throw a bit of watercolor on it. I’m gonna show you what you can do back at the hotel that you started somewhere here. I’m gonna show you how to convince your significant other to go and look at a magazine, but in five minutes you’ll have drawn this. Yeah, you’ll have drawn this in five minutes. You’ll have it. And at the end of the day, you’ll have one spread that is packed with stuff. You will be so excited by it that you won’t be able to wait to go on vacation. But also what I find is,

MR: Give me the patience.

DG: When I go away and I do travel journaling, when I come home, I want to do it of my town. Like I immediately want to go, you know, I’ve never been a tourist here. Let me go and do this stuff. It just gets you really excited. And so that’s kind of what we’re going to be doing on May 16th. Yeah, it’s going to be really fun.

MR: That sounds really fun. I’ve been to Paris with my wife a couple times and it makes me want to go as well.

DG: Yeah, I mean, there’s my favorite illustrator is Ronald Searle and he did a book called Paris Sketchbook where he and his wife went to Paris and they drew all the stuff and they did a thing much better, more complex than what I’m talking about. But I was hired by an author, he did a book on Paris and he said, were you illustrated? And I said, so my wife and I went to Paris and we, I think we were there for four days and I did.

I think like 50 illustrations for the book in one weekend, thinking about Ronald Searle the entire time. And I actually got, I was actually corresponding with him and I talked to him about it. He handed me the torch. So I felt like, okay, good. I’m allowed to acknowledge Ronald Searle.

MR: wow. So did he have a list of things that he wanted to be represented in his book or did he kind of turn it loose to you? Yeah, yeah.

DG: I think the guy who I illustrated for? Yeah, sort of, yeah. The book was about going to Paris to write a novel. So the idea was like, you can go to Paris, you can rent an apartment, you can go and do this stuff. It was kind of like, anybody can do this, which was a bit of a stretch, but yes, that was the idea.

MR: Mm.

MR: Well, if you have money, I suppose anybody can, but end time. Yeah, I guess if it’s important, that would be a way to separate yourself. That’s really interesting. Last year, I took my family to Scotland and we did something similar. And I knew with my family, I had the same challenges and I’ve done it live before. I thought, wouldn’t it be interesting if I actually took the limitations of my trip with my family and turned it into a

DG: Right, well, yeah, he thought it was something you could save up to do.

MR: into a challenge. So the way I approached it was I love taking photos, I’m pretty good. So I would, took photos of everything I thought would be interesting to make into a drawing. And then I was really good about every night when we got back, I would write the description of the day or a lot of times I would speak with, you know, Apple Notes, converting it into text. It wasn’t really to be beautiful. It was just not to forget. So every night or the morning I would write that down.

And my intention was, I knew that it was going to be a busy almost two weeks. And so I just captured everything in detail. I wrote descriptions every day, everything we did and all the funny stories and stuff. And then when I came home, I took all those photos and I then sat down and made layouts and stuff and looked at my own reference and rebuilt a travel journal that way, just to see like, would this work? And it was really fun. It was kind of like reliving the trip twice in a way.

Um, but you know, of course I would always prefer to like sit for two hours and draw something. It’s just, you know, when you have a 13 year old boy, it’s not always going to work that way. So now I’m kind of curious to take this as well to see like what your tricks are and maybe I can take those on board for my next family trip.

DG: Sure, join us. Absolutely. Yeah, I think that what you just described to me sounds like work. It sounds like a project that you have to, you know, to me, drawing is part of the experience. And so, and a lot of times I’m not, I’ll draw like a garbage can. I’ll draw like a pigeon. I’m not drawing, you know, perfect photos. Not necessarily. I mean, in this case, we’re probably going to be focusing on that, but yeah, to me, my travel journals are full of like weird cab drivers and stuff. They’re not,

MR: Yeah. Yeah.

MR: The sights, the sights, yeah.

MR: Yeah.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: You know, and a lot of it is also when you’re drawing on location. You mentioned my friend Tommy Kane. He’s done so much incredible. He only draws on location when he draws. And then, you know, it’s, you have experiences because you’re drawing, you know, so part of it is you’ll interact with other people, but also you just, you’re looking in a way and you’re seeing things that you’re never gonna capture with a photograph. In my experience, you know, and it’s also.

MR: Yes. Yep.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Right, I agree.

DG: What I like is I’ll start doing a drawing and then it starts raining or I do a drawing and the other person’s like, come on, we’ve got to go. So I have a half finished drawing and that half finished drawing is like, great. That’s a story. You know, started raining. You know, my wallet was stolen while I was drawing, whatever it is. There’s other things that happen that become part of it. Because to me, that’s what travel is. It’s like, it’s an adventure and it’s doing things you don’t normally do and eating things you don’t normally eat and you just, you’re just living life.

MR: Yeah.

DG: you know, more intensely when you’re traveling and drawing is part of that. And I think if you are a person who draws, you should be drawing when you’re traveling, cause that’s what you do, you know? And that’s why I resist the idea of making it into a perfect thing that then later on you can come back and look at it. It’s like spending a lot of time editing your travel photos and like putting them into Photoshop and correcting them, like whatever.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: yeah. Yeah.

MR: Yeah. What’s interesting the way you describe it, almost the thing that came to mind is everything is the material in the way that you’re approaching it. So like the pigeon that’s wandering around the garbage can or the angry taxi driver who made you get out of the cab in the rain or whatever the thing is, like everything is the material. My wallet getting stolen, like that’s part of the story. Instead of looking at it as like an inconvenience or a problem or which maybe it is, but it’s also the thing you laugh about when you

look back at the sketchbook and you see, that’s right. I did get my wallet stolen. That was, that was quite a story. Let me tell you about that one. So.

DG: Yeah, I remember my father-in-law came to visit from a small town in Ohio to visit us in New York for the first time. And he went out and he wandered around. He was gone for like a couple of hours. I was kind of worried about him, like, is he getting lost in the city? But he came back and he was like, you wouldn’t believe it. I said, did you have an interesting experience? He was like, you wouldn’t believe it. And I said, really? So like, what did you see? And he said, a six pack of Coke was $5.99.

MR: Yeah.

DG: I was like, really? Like that’s your perception of New York, but that’s your perception of New York. Like that’s a thing, you know, that’s like, that’s very personal takeaway, but he was amazed at how expensive it is here. So to me, it’s like that, those experiences, I just have a lot of them of like, just weird things happen. And they’re the things that you might forget unless you told them and they became like your.

MR: Yeah, yeah.

MR: Yeah.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: the story you always tell about your trip to Thailand or whatever. But when you put it down, you know, and I also find that like there’ve been a lot of times where I’ve been drawing in places that are convenient to draw. So you’re sitting in a cafe, you’re sitting, you know, on a bench somewhere. And that’s a lot of times when I first was drawing on location, I would have to look for a place that was comfortable to sit. And a lot of times that place wasn’t a great way to look at the thing.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Hmm.

DG: I was drawing. Since then I’ve learned to have a camp stool that I carry with me and I can sit wherever I want to. But a lot of times you’re sitting in a weird way and there are people in front of you and there’s a tree and you can’t quite see the building. But then that becomes part of the drawing too. That becomes part of the thing. It’s like this experience of discomfort was part of

MR: okay.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: the story.

MR: Yeah, I think the other thing that comes to mind too, and maybe you can respond to this is I got a feeling like when you first arrive in a new place, like when we first got to Scotland, a lot of it just feeling it out and like your father-in-law, well, six pack of Coke’s really expensive. It feels like as you sort of settle into the place. So like by day two or something, I was really intent on taking my kids to the grocery store and buying some food because we had a flat that we rented. Right. And I wanted them, my intention with the whole travel thing was what does it feel like to be

a Glaswegian, right? The Glaswegian in the city. We live in a flat. We got to walk to the grocery store. We got to go to the Aldi. We got to walk to the train. Like this is what it’s like to live in the city. I want you to feel what that’s like. Now, maybe that’s not where you’ll ultimately go, but I want you to feel comfortable doing that and experiencing that. So that’s my ulterior motive. And then I sort of piggybacked the experience on my own, but I kept the feeling is like, it sort of takes a couple of days for the shock to wear off. And then you start.

Like you’re noticing changes a little bit, I think. Would you find that as well?

DG: Yeah, and I agree with what you’re describing also because you’re getting to see what it’s like to live there as opposed to what it’s like to live in a hotel there, you know, because hotel living is completely artificial, right? But I’ve lived in apartments in lots of different places, like we lived in, just before the pandemic, we were in Amsterdam for like a month and a half, you know, and so we went from like really loving Amsterdam to frankly not liking it that much because we saw what we had been thinking. We had been thinking about moving to Amsterdam and we spent some time there.

MR: Mm-hmm. Right.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Hmm.

DG: and we thought, I think we don’t want to be here. But I think that that’s, again, that’s what’s so great about travel. And that’s why I love travel writing. There’s just so many great writers who write about travel because you’re going to a weird place and your senses are open to everything. It’s not like being at home where you are so used to so many things and you know where you buy coffee and you know what bus to take and those kinds of things. When you’re in a new place, you’re like, your nerves are all.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: raw and so you’re picking up all kinds of stuff. It’s exhausting as well, but it’s fascinating and kind of helps you to, I think, learn about yourself and what you’re capable of.

MR: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I find that it feels to me like whenever I’ve traveled, there’s been shifts in my life, either perceptually or I’ve, you know, as an example, I went with my wife to Sweden. I was right at the point where I was deciding, do I want to continue being a print graphic designer or do I want to take this job with this guy being a web designer? It was brand new in 97, 98. And so we went on this trip and I just remember coming back and it was so clear like

You know, I can always get a job as a graphic designer now, but there’s not going to be always this opportunity to be early to web design. I want to go for it. I was single. I didn’t have any bills. I lived in an apartment. You know, I had like a car payment and that was it. So I went for it and it totally changed my life, but I’ve always tied travel with sort of realizations in my regular life, even though I was away from it. That’s really unusual to say, but sort of like stepping out of normality. Let me sort of look at things a little differently. I think.

DG: you were willing to take risks. Yeah, you were taking risks when you traveled, which opened you up to the idea of being risky in your career as well. I had a similar thing when I left advertising. I was afraid that if I stayed in New York, I would, within six months, have another job doing basically what I had done. Somebody else was gonna offer, and I would just be a creative director of some other agency. And so my wife and I moved to Los Angeles for a year.

MR: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

MR: Mm. Mm-hmm.

DG: I kind of didn’t really know anybody. I didn’t really know what I was doing and everything was new. I ended up actually going to clown school because I was like, I’m just, nobody knows me. I can do whatever the hell I want and I can do. And so that opened up so many things to me by just being willing to be in a different place and being away from habit. And because I was afraid that.

MR: Mm.

MR: Wow

MR: Yeah.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: all the habits that I still maintained would end up making me just return back like, you know, like a rubber band back to where I had been. And so this opportunity, this door that had opened, I would close it myself and I didn’t want it. And I’m glad I didn’t.

MR: Hmm. Interesting. That’s like the burn the ships moment, right? You don’t have no way back. I mean, obviously you could move back to New York City if you wanted to, but sort of forced you to deal. Yeah. You’re a different person and it was a different place, right? And yeah, really interesting. I know this whole discussion has turned a lot toward travel, but I love travel. I think the other observation that I would say for those that are listening and thinking about, should I do this? I kind of feel like

DG: And we did, we did. But when I came back to New York, I was totally different.

Everything was different, yeah.

DG: Thank

MR: I need travel. Like I realized this, I’ve been realizing this for a long time, but like when I could travel, I come back refreshed and more alive. I’m looking at a trip right now to Chicago, where I was born, to go back and see people. And I just love wandering the city and, you know, I’ll take my family to places where I feel comfortable, but maybe it’s new for them. But I just feel like when I come back, like my life sort of kicks up a notch and I’m just kind of recognizing like, I need this. Like it’s not.

It’s not even like it’s for business or anything. It’s just, I need it for me. And that’s kind of interesting to observe that. So.

DG: Absolutely.

Yeah, I did a lot of business travel over the years, but ironically, I live in Phoenix, Arizona now. And the reason I live here is because my wife and I went for a three day weekend to Palm Springs in March of 2020. So we went away for a long weekend. And when we got to Palm Springs, the pandemic hit that weekend.

MR: Hmm.

MR: Wow. Wow.

DG: and we couldn’t go home. So my sister-in-law was here, she lives in Phoenix, so she said, well, you can’t go back, there are no flights, like the airports are all closed, you might as well just come back to Phoenix with us and you can stay on our couch and whatever, figure it out. I still live here six years later because of that. Literally, like we ended up, yeah, we ended up, like we couldn’t go back for months and months and we ended up selling our apartment in New York and now we live here and it’s, I,

MR: Mm. Mm.

See you guys.

DG: I didn’t know anything about this place. My wife is from here originally, but she hasn’t lived here for like 20 years either. And so that little, and I, but I also will say that the pandemic kind of scared us about travel, not just because of that experience, but just in general, everything seemed so dicey around travel. I would say this year we’re just starting to crawl out of our holes and start to travel again. We’re going to go to France in a couple of months. So yeah, it’s going to open up again.

MR: Hmm. Interesting.

MR: Yeah, everybody’s different, you know, in what they want to do. And I was like you. I went to New York City, I think New York City was one of the last places I did a workshop for sketchnoting, and then down in Jamaica. But I stayed in the city. I try every time I go to New York City to try a different area. So I stayed a little bit closer to, I don’t know what the neighborhood was, but I really enjoyed being there. And it was like my last big, you know, and I walked around the city, which I like doing and just

trying to be like, again, I always approach this travel, like, what would it be like to be a New Yorker? I knew what it would like to be a Chicago kid, but I was a little kid. So I’d walk around, I’d go around to the neighborhood restaurant and have lunch. Sometimes I’d go to the same place a couple of times. And what does it feel like to be a regular here? And like, I met a friend up in Alphabet City and I wandered around and hey, there’s a barber shop. So I went in and I got a haircut. Like, and when I told my friend, he was like, oh man, you’re just being like a New Yorker, right? You’re just getting stuff done.

DG: Ha

MR: And I was just kind of having fun doing that, you know, it’s only for a weekend or a long weekend, but it was fun to do that. So I guess I hadn’t planned on this being so much about travel, but I’m pretty excited about travel. And I think it sounds like you are too. And I encourage people listening and watching to consider it. Like Danny says, take this workshop he’s offering and learn how you can integrate drawing, sneak it in, in a sense, I think is a really great way to make that.

I agree with you, that makes the experience just so much more memorable and interesting for yourself to, you know, rather than just do it and sort of experience it and then forget about it, like to really live it fully. And then you’ve got a record, you know, it’s pretty cool. Well, we can maybe jump into some tips here. I like, I always like something practical. I just was growing up, my dad’s blue collar. I grew up with blue collar.

DG: Absolutely.

DG: Sure.

MR: He would always say, what have you learned, Mike? So I always want to bring something practical for people to apply. So in this context, maybe we frame it around travel stuff. I don’t know. What would be three things you would say? Frame it this way. There’s a visual thinker of some kind listening. They might be just a hobbyist who’s doing it for fun. They might be a pro. They could be a professional who just uses it on a whiteboard.

I think everybody has opportunities to travel. So maybe we frame it around that. What would be three things for somebody traveling to consider as tips they could do to kind of step into this world that we’re talking about that would encourage them.

DG: Well, I think the tips I was gonna give are broader, but they could certainly be applied to this. So the first one, it’s exactly what you just said, which is to embrace constraints. I think we’re so used to, particularly if you’re a creative professional, you’re used to having constraints on what your ideas are. You have a strategy, you have a brief, you have a client, you have this and that, so you work within that box. I think a lot of times when people come to me and they say, what should I draw?

MR: Okay, all right.

MR: Hmm.

DG: I’d love to draw, I don’t know what to draw. They think that they’re supposed to be like making some art. So like, what is that supposed to be about? But I think if you try and find constraints, and the constraints could be just draw a certain way. You could say, I’m only gonna, I’m gonna go to Paris, but I’m only gonna draw things I eat. And I’m only gonna draw food. Or you could say, I’m only gonna,

MR: There you go.

DG: take two colored pencils with me and everything I do is gonna be just using those two colored pencils. Or you could say, you know, I’m only gonna use materials that I find in Paris along the way, you know? So when you have a constraint, that I think stretches your mind to solve a problem. You’ve created your own problem and then it’s much more interesting and I think

MR: Hmm.

DG: When you look at, I don’t know, look at impressionism, for instance, or look at lots of great art works within constraints. I think that’s also aesthetically, I find that really appealing because I think when you think about lots of different ways to solve the same problem, it’s like the old kind of like, how do you drop a light bulb off a building kind of design exercise that we all got in high school, and protect an egg from a

I forget what it was, right? When you work within that and you try and think of lots of things, and I really like this exercise of exercising your imagination by giving yourself a list of 10 things. And saying, you start by saying, I’m gonna come up with 10 lists of 10 things, 10 topics for 10 lists. So the first topic might be,

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Hmm.

DG: you know, 10 ways to drop an egg off a building. And the next topic might be 10 things I could cook with radishes. And the next thing is 10 people I’d like to have dinner with who were dead, 10, you know, and you just have a list of, so you make a list of 10 things. And then the next day, and this is literally something you can do every day. The next day you take 10 things, 10 people I want to have dinner with and you come up with 10 things, you know? And so doing those kinds of things,

MR: Hmm.

DG: If you do that every day for a year, that means you’ll have come up with 3,650 ideas. And there might be five really good ideas in there. And you could just spend five minutes doing that as you’re brushing your teeth or whatever. So to me, having, again, having constraints really stretches you. I also like the idea of having, as a part of this, is having personal projects. So I’ve had lots of different kinds of personal projects like

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: When I first got Procreate, I decided that I would, I wanted to get to know Procreate and I didn’t want to like do a lot of courses or whatever. I just decided, I’m gonna give myself an assignment. Every day on Instagram, I’m going to post, for 100 days, I’m gonna post a different drawing of a dog, a different kind of dog and a different way of drawing that dog.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Mm.

DG: And I’m gonna do that for a hundred days. And so I did that and I did all kinds of things, styles, cartoony and oil painting, all the great things you can do with Procreate. And I learned how to use Procreate really well, enjoying those hundred days. I learned how to draw dogs well. I learned how to kind of come up with ideas, you know, cause each one was a different idea. My thing was just like, I’m gonna spend like 15 minutes doing each one, 20 minutes, whatever it is, quick, get it up on Instagram, move on.

MR: You

DG: I’m just doing it. And the reason I included Instagram was because it was another constraint, which is I have an obligation to do it, and not that anybody cared or was paying attention, but for me it was like, don’t want to break my streak. So I did it for a hundred days and that was really helpful. But I think there’s just a lot of projects that are, you know, I drew my same teacup with the same pen every single day for an entire sketchbook’s worth of a thing while I was waiting for the kettle to boil.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Yeah, don’t break the streak.

DG: I had a tea sketchbook that I kept next to the tea kettle. And then I would put the kettle on, wait for the thing, wait for it to pour the tea, wait for it to steep. The whole thing would take six minutes and I would draw my teacup each time. Sometimes it’s the same way. Sometimes it’s different. So having things like this are just, it’s just, it’s fun. It has no particular purpose, but something might come out of it. Projects can turn into things, but that’s not why you’re doing it. And it’s just a way of.

channeling what you’re doing. So that would be my first tip is constraints and projects. My second thought is plateaus. I think that if you draw a lot, after a year, sometimes longer, you will hit a plateau, where you’re just not getting any better. You had this like incredible run when you first were learning, but now if you look at what you drew,

MR: Mm-hmm. I like that.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: six months ago and you look at what you’re drawing now, it’s kind of the same. You’re kind of doing it the same way, you know? And basically you’re getting better and better at the same thing, but your brain isn’t really growing because there’s no more challenge anymore, you know? And I think about it in terms of exercise, you know, the same things happen if you’re like lifting weights or running or whatever. You just kind of get to this point and then you’re just doing it. And I think the danger with that is you will fall off the plateau.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Yeah.

DG: your enthusiasm for doing has changed. So I think that an important way of getting across that plateau, getting back to getting better is beginner’s mind. So beginner’s mind allows you to really take off. What I suggest is like, try something that you are really uncomfortable with doing. You know, it might be subject matter that you never like to draw. It may be a tool that you’ve never used before.

MR: Hmm.

MR: Mm.

DG: It may be looking at some artists who are very different from you and really like studying what they do and maybe doing some, you know, just try to draw in their style. But whatever you can do to snap that default way you have of doing things will help you to grow into a different thing. Yeah. And I do this thing called Draw With Me, which is a weekly live stream on YouTube, but I’ve been doing it for six years now.

MR: Hmm.

DG: And every week, we draw something really different. And sometimes we draw one thing and sometimes I’ve done as many as 40 things in an hour. Sometimes we draw people, we draw animals, we draw things from our imaginations, we draw things from photo reference, we do lettering, we do all kinds of stuff. But my objective in doing all of this is to really stretch myself and to stretch

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: people who come and to just say like, here are things because everybody will say I never thought I could draw X. And I can’t believe that I did it. And a lot of what I do is I really move fast. I’m like, going, and I’m not waiting for you, you’re gonna keep up with me. And if I have photo reference, it’s gonna, you know, if you haven’t taken a screenshot, you’re out of luck. And I’m amazed at how people can do it. People can just, they can

MR: Hmm.

MR: Ha ha.

DG: learn to draw really quickly and they can draw really weird things and we can draw, we draw upside down sometimes, we draw with our non-dominant hand sometimes, we do watercolors, all kinds of things and it’s, and then at the beginning of each show, we show all the things that people drew and posted from the week before. So you get to see like all the different things. So to me again, that’s, if you’re just feeling like, ugh, I’m just not getting any better.

MR: Hmm.

DG: try something like this or come join me on YouTube. But you know, just get over yourself, get off what you’re good at and get bad at something, get bad. And then you will shake it up. So that’s my second thought. And then the third thought is I don’t like the word practice, you know? And I think a lot of times we’re like, well, I really got to practice and I should practice. And I like thinking of, yeah, I think it’s like,

MR: Hmm.

MR: baggage on that one.

DG: I think of practice, and I think when it comes to drawing practice, drawing practice is really bad. It’s like drawing an egg or putting the light, shading. This is like a horrible thing. I just, I don’t know, I just, maybe it’s because I didn’t go to art school, but every time I sat down to teach myself and I would open a book on how to draw, it’s just, I didn’t want to do it. So I like the idea of thinking of practice the way lawyers think of practice.

Doctors think of practice or yoga instructors think of practice. It’s just a thing that you do. And what you’re doing is you’re practicing the thing you do. Not because you’re doing exercises, but because you’re applying it. That’s what practice really means. It’s you’re practicing what you preach. You’re practicing what you’ve learned. You’re applying it. And so I think to think about like, what can you do so that instead of trying to learn fundamentals, but maybe you do want to learn fundamentals, but you’re applying them.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: in some way. So if you say, I want to like get better at drawing noses, well then fill a whole sketchbook with portraits of people with big noses, you know, make it something else, but don’t just draw like grids and cubes and you know, all that stuff. I think it’s terrible. And people who are first learning to draw, that’s where they start. It’s like learning chopsticks. I don’t want to play chopsticks. Nobody wants to play chopsticks, right? You want to play songs. So like great.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: Yeah, doesn’t apply to anything necessarily.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: Go and do that. You’ll be bad at it, but keep going and then you’ll get good at it. But it’s really like keeping it interesting, keeping it varied. Those are the things that, you know, I think push you forward. So those are my three tips. Constraints and projects is one. Plateaus and beginner’s mind is two. And then the third one is practice redefined. You find practice for yourself.

MR: Yeah. It’s interesting when you talk about that, the way you describe practice, it’s almost like you’re putting yourself in a plateau, right? If you think of it that way, because you’ve got this thing you’re not that interested in, but you feel like you have to do it. That sounds like plateau to me. But the solution that you offer, I think of it like I tie personal projects with practice, like the doing is like, I want to learn how to draw noses. So what I’m going to do is I’m going to find out who are the most interesting people in history who had big noses.

DG: Yeah

DG: Mm-hmm.

MR: I’m going to find pictures and draw them and then tell their story and make it into a personal project of big nose people or whatever. You know, just to like, I feel like when I do any kind of work, like sometimes it’s best when I have a project where I have to use the tool that I don’t want to use to force me to learn how to use the tool, right? Maybe it’s going to take a little bit longer, but by the end of it, then I’ll have a better sense of the tool and how it works as a practical way.

DG: But also I think if you apply the tool, if you apply the tool to something that you are interested in so you can form a linkage between them. Like for me, there were things about Procreate that were like, yeah, I could do lots of tutorials about it. But I like dogs and I like the idea of that challenge. And so then I was applying the tool so it became painless, you know, and I wasn’t constantly failing at it, you know, which is I think another thing that becomes really painful is that.

MR: Yeah.

MR: Right.

You

MR: Yeah.

DG: if you’re just trying to learn a tool without having some purpose, you’re going to fail a lot and that’s very discouraging.

MR: Yeah. Yeah. It becomes secondary. Like the learning Procreate is almost secondary to the project itself and the doing the dogs. And I think the other thing I like is you’re kind of overlapping. Like I want to learn Procreate and I like dogs and I’m going to challenge myself. So you’re sort of doing this overlapping activity so that it’s not one thing. It’s like three things at once. So if you

DG: Yeah, and related to that is like life drawing classes. Like I’ve gone to life drawing classes at various points, you know, and a lot of times I’ll get to the point where I’m like, why am I spending three hours drawing this naked person? I don’t know. Like, what’s the point? Like, what am I going to do with this? And you know, and also this way of drawing, spending three hours doing a single person and drawing them with charcoal, whatever, like it has nothing to do with anything that I want to do. It is kind of fun to spend three hours in a concerted way drawing.

MR: You

MR: Yeah. Yeah.

DG: but I often would feel like, okay, I have all these drawings that I’ve done. I just, I think I could find a better way of spending three hours drawing. And you know, and I know that not everybody feels that way and life drawing is great and all those things, but for me, it’s just like getting to know yourself, but not giving up, just modifying it so that you find a way of continuing to draw that fits with you, your way of seeing the world, the kinds of things you like to do.

MR: Mm-hmm.

DG: the amount of time you have to do it in, all that stuff, keep it fun.

MR: Yeah, I love those tips. Those are great. Thank you so much for doing those, for sharing those. Well, Danny, it’s been great to have you on the show. What are the best places for people to go find more about you? Of course, I’ll have show notes with all kinds of links, everything we’ve talked about. But is there one place where you would send people?

DG: You bet.

DG: Yeah, I would say I mean, yeah, I mean, I have sketchbookskool.com is our website and Skool is spelled with a K. We also have our YouTube channel, which has thousands of videos on it. And also Danny’s Essays is my weekly essay. That’s free. YouTube is free and my courses are affordably priced. Yeah.

MR: Okay.

MR: Mm-hmm.

MR: I think they’re all pretty reasonable. Yeah, I think they’re all really reasonable. Yeah. And I think the latest book you published I purchased, is your Danny’s Essays book. And I’m also a subscriber to that as well. So I really enjoy your essays when they come out. Yeah, for sure. Got to support your people. Yeah, not a problem. Well, Danny, thanks so much for being on the show. It’s great to have you. Thanks for sharing. I love.

DG: yes. Great. Thank you. Thanks for wanting it.

Yeah, every Friday.

Yes, thank you.

DG: Thanks.

MR: just your whole mindset and approach and the work you’re doing. Thank you for doing it. You’re making the world a better place. I think I just want to say thank you for that. Yeah. And for anybody who’s watching or listening, this is another episode. Talk to you soon.

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

Sketching: The Problem Solver’s Power Tool

Mike Rohde — Fri, 08 May 2026 13:40:09 GMT

Video version of this post:

There are so many tools out there that can generate ideas for you. We know about all of those tools… You can’t beat ‘em off with a stick!

Why sketch? Sketching lets you explore ideas and fosters dialogue

Sketching is a great way to explore ideas and get them out of your head rather than just choosing the first one that pops out. Step out of the rush to finish, slow down, and take time to create sketches and see the variety that actually exists.

A lot of times, when you start drawing ideas, the first idea leads you to the second, and you might even have bad ideas in the middle.

But as you work through the early ideas and the bad ones, you start to see better ideas. Or maybe your first idea was genius. Having a variety of sketches lets you explore ideas and choose from a range of options.

Read: Moving Projects Forward with Sketchnotes

Sketching also fosters dialogue between your thinking and someone else’s thinking. It puts something in between you and your colleagues that lets everyone focus on the content of what you’re thinking. It makes ideas visible so you and your team can see what you’re thinking and get valuable feedback.

It’s a great way to get ideas out in the open and helps you avoid the “illusion of agreement,” where you think everybody’s aligned, but in reality, everyone has different ideas in their head that nobody can see.

When we sketch together, our thinking becomes visible, and others in the room have a chance to offer feedback, guide ideas, and become a part of a solution.

Read: Whiteboard Sketchnote Mondays

Sketching Is Thinking!

Sketching lets you take the stuff in your head and have a discussion with yourself. You think as you draw ideas, respond to them, and modify them. You see what’s in your thinking and have documentation of your thinking.

Just like writing is thinking, sketching is thinking. It’s really important that you include sketching in your creative process, even if (and especially if) your sketches are ugly!

Sketching Lets You Play!

Sketching lets you play. You can play around with different ideas, explore weird, wacky stuff. I encourage exploring wacky ideas because a lot of times, the wacky ideas lead to the best ideas.

Play lifts restrictions from your mind so you can explore and takes away the pressure of delivering because… you’re just playing!

Read: My Book Illustration Process: The Future Begins with Z

Delay Computification!

Computification is my word for jumping right to software to start building things. I think it’s dangerous because when you do that, you’re accepting the limitations and constraints of that software without realizing it.

By jumping right to the computer, you’re adapting yourself to what the software can or can’t do, rather than sketching out the idea first and then finding out if the software can handle it. With AI you end up giving the fun part to the robot!

Maybe pushing it a little harder than it might normally go, or shifting to a different tool altogether because you realize the tool you had in mind won’t cut it.

Read: Small Sketches, Big Impact: Unlocking the Power of Thumbnail Sketches

Own Your Process

It can be very tempting to throw in concepts, ask the AI robots for a Studio Ghibli version of your idea, and let the generative AI tool do all the work.

But once you start giving process tasks to another tool without thinking through what you’re looking for, you can find yourself dependent on that tool and no longer doing the creative thinking you love and you’re paid to do.

Think about where sketching fits in your process and where your tools fit. Whether it’s AI or something you produce by hand, it's important to really think about your process and own it.

Read: Protect your creative process from the AI robots

But I’m not an artist, I can’t draw or sketch…

You might be saying, “I’m not an artist, I can’t draw, I don’t know how to sketch.”

Actually, I think you can. I talk a lot about this in The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook. It’s about changing your mindset of what sketching is.

If you use five simple shapes: a square, a circle, a triangle, a line, and a dot, and step away from worrying about producing art and back to just capturing ideas and thinking, you now have a way into this process that’s not overwhelming.

The bar isn’t beautiful artwork. The bar is communicating with yourself, your colleagues, and your team in a way that moves the idea forward to the next step.

Watch: Sketchnotes 101 Video Replay

How to Start Sketching

Here are four ways to integrate sketching into your process:

Start small. Pick an existing problem you’re dealing with right now. Not something huge! Just a little corner of the project, some component you can address in a short amount of time.
Go for just 10 minutes. Use the five basic shapes and play around with ideas for 10 minutes, then come back and reflect. What do they mean? Are there interesting things that can lead you in a different direction? Are there things from the back hallway of your subconscious that fell out on the page?
Use the five basic shapes. Keep it simple. It’s ideas, not art. If you break sketching into squares, circles, triangles, lines, and dots, it’s doable.
Make it a habit. If you continue to take small pieces, spend 10 minutes, and use the five basic shapes, it becomes a habit. When you get stuck, when you’re not sure what to do, when you need a break from the computer, why not make sketching your go-to way to solve problems? Soon, sketching becomes a habit.

Sketching is really powerful. Give it a try on your current project!

— Mike

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

Federica Tabone & Claudio Nichele: Sketchnote Camp Verona 2026 — S1/E1

Mike Rohde — Tue, 05 May 2026 13:03:22 GMT

In this episode, I sit down with Federica Tabone and Claudio Nichele, two of the key organizers of the upcoming Verona International Sketchnote Camp, to discuss how this pioneering event brings together the ISC and EVP communities for the first time.

Listen to the episode here:

We dig into the Bar Camp Plus format, what makes Verona the perfect backdrop, and why this gathering is designed around active participation, collective learning, and community connection.

Photo by Alessandro Carrarini on Unsplash

Running Order

Introduction and overview of the Verona Sketchnote Camp
The story behind organizing the Verona event
The collaboration between ISC and EVP communities
The Full Bar Camp Plus format explained
The interactive, participant-led sessions and collective harvesting
Cultural highlights of Verona: history, food, and city experiences
Event logistics: tickets, prices, and optional dinners
What is a Bar Camp? Explanation and twists for Verona
The concept of collective learning and post-event harvesting
The beauty and culture of Verona as the event backdrop
Food, networking, and the Italian experience
Ticket options, early bird pricing, and optional activities
Practical information: dinner and lunch costs
The community spirit and opportunities for meaningful connections
Closing remarks: excitement for the event and community gratitude

Resources & Links

Sponsored by The Reflective Travel Workshop

Have you ever wanted to create travel sketchnotes from an experience you’ve had, just using the photos and memories you’ve got?

This 2-hour recorded video includes a set of downloadable, printable sketching templates and a process to kickstart your own travel sketchnoting practice.

All this for just $20.

Subscribe to the Sketchnote Podcast

You can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or your favorite podcast-listening app.

Support the Podcast

To support the creation and production of the Sketchnote Podcast, buy one of my bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off.

Transcript

Mike Rohde: Hey everyone, it’s Mike Rohde and I’m here with my friends Federica Tabone and Claudio Nichele. Welcome to the show, you guys. It’s great to have you here.

Federica Tabone: I might, it’s a pleasure, thank you.

Claudio Nichele: Hi everyone.

MR: And so the reason I have Federica and Claudio on the show is they are some of the main organizers of the International Sketchnote Camp, plus European Visual Practitioners Sketchnote Camp in Verona, Italy. And I wanted to have them on for this first episode of the Sketchnote podcast to talk a little bit about the event, which is very important to me and to many sketchnoters around the world where we get together and we hang out and learn and have a great weekend together. So let’s begin first with Federica, talk to us a little bit about the story. Like how did this event happen? I know I have my perspective, but I’d like to hear your perspective. And then we’ll talk a little bit about the partnership between the ISC team and the European Visual Practitioners, EVP team.

FT: Yeah, we were all together in Birmingham last summer and talking with Claudio, the idea of organizing the next meeting in Italy came up very spontaneously and so we came to you just to propose you this new idea, why new? Because this time in Verona two different communities, but very similar also, joined together to participate to a unique event. And we are talking about the ISC community, International Sketchnote Camp, and the EVP community, European Visual Practitioner. I belong to both. And my idea was to give to all the opportunity to experience the vibes and the intention of these two communities. So I found in Claudio a marvelous partner in this organization. And Claudio, I’m so grateful for your generosity in organizing these events with your skills in this area. And we are creating a huge event because, Beyond Visual as the title of the event means that we will go farther than markers and papers. But we will use paper to create 3D objects that can represent metaphorically concepts and ideas. So this time we will use hands not only to draw, but also to create shapes. And it will be a place to experiment a new way to be a sketchnoter, visual practitioner, a graphic recorder. And so Beyond Visual is like an experiment for both sides, the two joint communities and this particular angle of our profession. And the more added value is the cultural side because we will have the participation from different countries. Far East, Middle East, Americas, Europe, and there you will have the opportunity to discover culture because just simply looking at participants during a workshop you can understand the different ways to be a professional. You can discover the most common tools, for example, that professionals use in their everyday job. But don’t forget that in this event, you will have sketchnoters and the professionals, visual facilitators. And so we can learn from each other. Mike, these are the first things that I want to share with you.

MR: That’s wonderful. I love the combination and the fact that these communities have crossed over in the past. So it’s really great that we make an official formal collaboration. I think it just makes sense. It expands the community, opens each community up to the other in a more formal way. And I think that’s really great. I think it just shows maturity of our profession and our interest area. I think that the thing that was most interesting to me about what you are planning to do is you’re doing a full bar camp with some twists. So I’d love to have Claudio talk a little bit about what a bar camp is for those who might be listening or watching and thinking, I don’t even know what that is. Explain it to me and what are the twists that they have in mind.

CN: Let’s start with the full bar camp mode that we wanted since the beginning with Federica for our event in Verona. Let’s start by something which is more common and well known by people. When you attend a conference, typically you are there sitting into a conference theater, sometimes into the dark, watching or listening to speakers on the stage, and you are quite passive there. Maybe if you are lucky, you will ask a question and receive a response from the speakers, but you never interact, or very few, you have very few interactions with the other participants. A bar camp is called also an un-conference, which is totally the opposite. There is no stage, no speakers there speaking for a long time, but everyone is a participant, an active participant. And during a bar camp, you can propose your own workshops, your own sessions, a session where you want to discuss about a topic. You have a burning question about how to do something, technology or about the business itself, just how to start with one specific practice. You can launch your question and the other participants will join you in your room, in your corner to

enrich the conversation, to respond to your question and to actively participate with the other participants in your own session. In practical terms, during the three days of the event in Verona, on the Friday, we will together create an agenda for the day after. So those who want to offer a training or want to explain a practice, or me if I have a question how to become a professional, I will come to the large board, put there my proposition for a session for the day after. And the day after, during the Saturday, we’ll have two series of parallel sessions where the owners of the session will go to a specific room. We will be in a university with plenty of beautiful classrooms. And those who are interested to join you for your session are free to come in your room.

To stay there as long as they want to stay. If they want to move to another topic, because as they say, I’m interested in three topics, they are free to move to go to the other rooms. And we’ll have like that two series of parallel sessions on the Saturday. On the Sunday, and this is totally new in the full bar camp mode, Federica and I wanted to have something like a collective harvesting. Because on Saturday, as individuals, we join specific rooms, specific sessions, to listen, to learn, to interact with others, but it will be something very personal. On the Sunday morning, we want to work with a group of participants to harvest together what are the learnings we had the day before, to go to the highest level of knowledge and learnings.

So then when you leave the event, you not only will leave with your own takeaways, but the takeaways from the group, the bunch of people who were in the same rooms as you there. And because you are visual thinkers, we are thinking to propose a very large landscape where we will have this collective harvesting all together. These are the three days, more or less, around a bar camp, and we call it with Federica a bar camp plus.

MR: Love it, love it. Well, that’s really great. I think that’s exciting and it provides all the different things that you want. And it becomes more personal, I think more interactive than a traditional event would be where you’re just absorbing information, you’re more active. So that’s very exciting as well. Talk to me a little bit about the city. Federica, you live close by to Verona. The only thing I know about Verona is Shakespeare and Romeo and Juliet. Tell us a little bit more about the city and what we can expect as we come to the event.

FT: Yeah, you can have some suggestions from our logo because as you can see we have the Romeo and Juliet balcony and the arena of the Verona that is very similar to Colosseum in Rome. Think about that we will have our official dinner on Saturday evening in front of the arena so we can appreciate the shades, the color of the city during the sunset. And before the dinner, we will have the guided tour. So you discover not only the most famous spots of Verona, but also the hidden part, the story behind the city. And think about that Verona is not so big, so it is enjoyable to walk through and you can switch from the history to the nature in a very quick way because in Verona there is a beautiful river and inside the university where the event will take place.

You can see the river and a medieval bridge, the Ponte di Castelvecchio, bridge of Castelvecchio, and you can be inspired by nature and history inside the venue. And don’t forget that you will have also a gelato experience. When you will be free to explore Verona by yourself, you can join a special ice cream shop. We have a deal with this shop. And so with your ticket, you can enter, you can choose the ice cream you prefer, and you will be in the middle of the city center in front of an ancient Romanic place. Verona is not only nature and history and beauty, but is also food, of course.

So, Claudio and I prepared a beautiful Italian food experience, and during the lunch that we will have, you will taste the different Italian courses. And during the entire experience, you will have a coffee break, and you can access to this coffee area with Italian coffee, sweets, fruit in a very silent space that is dedicated to the networking moment. So as Claudio mentioned before, we took in consideration one of the most common desires of people as participants in these events.

Due to our experience, sometimes you are in a rush. So you need to have a recap of some workshop. In this networking area, you can talk and you will have your time to understand, learn from each other and continue your networking moment.

MR: Wonderful. Well, it sounds like you’ve got everything planned and you’ve accommodated for having been at many of these events, right? You’ve learned a lot from the previous events and made this event adapt to the things that you thought would be beneficial. So that’s really great to hear. Let’s get into the final specific details. So Claudio, you talked to us about the ticket options and also in addition to the standard ticket, the add-ons, which you can do. I know there’s a few add-ons that someone might consider, so talk about those.

CN: Yes, exactly. To join us, you can buy three different tickets. Unfortunately, in two days time, only one, the standard ticket will be available. Otherwise, if you are a member of the EVP community, you still have two days to buy your discounted ticket. The early bird tickets are already sold out and it gives us a sign that we have a real demand of people to join us. Otherwise, a few days before the event, everyone will be able to buy a ticket to join us, which is at the price of 355 euros, not dollars for American friends, euros. And this will give you access to the full event, a three day event, which includes the lunch, the coffee experience during the whole day. And it’s not only during the coffee breaks, but the Italian coffee stand will be open the full day. What else? The optional tickets, because we are there for three days, we can spend a night together at the pizzeria, an Italian restaurant, cooking pizza on Saturday night in front of the arena.

MR: I think.

CN: It’s a beautiful place. We went there, we tested it with Federica a few days ago. And this is an option. You’re not obliged, but if you want to continue the conversation of today around a good pizza, you can buy your ticket for the Saturday dinner. And because you are finishing on Sunday, around one o’clock PM, and we don’t want to leave people to go around the city to find their own snack or another restaurant. We are offering a second optional opportunity to buy your own food and we will share it on site at the university site, in the catering space. So these are two optionals but at a very affordable price, not too expensive, even for a city like Verona. And with, again, Italian food and we are putting a lot of pressure on the catering to offer a real Italian food experience to our friends who are joining us.

MR: Of course. So the main ticket, which I think will be what’s available when this releases next week, is 355 euro. What was the cost for the dinner and what is the cost for the luncheon on Sunday?

CN: Around 20 euros. I don’t know. Yeah, around 24 euros if I’m correct. 24 euros for the pizzeria. And Federica, you have a better...

MR: That’s reasonable.

FT: and 21 for the lunch on Sunday.

CN: It costs you more time and more money to go outside and to find a place where you will eat. And you stay with us and we can continue all the conversation we want to continue to have.

MR: Right.

FT: Yeah, for sure.

MR: That’s great. Yeah. And I think a lot of it, I would always prioritize how do we keep together because we like being together and hanging out together. So this just provides more opportunity and then maybe sit by someone you wanted to talk with and have your dinner or your luncheon with them and catch up and chat with them. So that’s really great.

CN: We’ll have a full first floor just for us and we can choose the places where we want to stay and it’s a wonderful place.

MR: That’s great. And I think these prices all sound really reasonable to me. If you’ve ever been to an event and you’ve seen the prices that events can be, this is a very reasonable price. So thank you for working so hard to make it possible for even the hobbyists if they wish to come, or professionals who want to extend their visual thinking skills, all the way up to the pros who do this day in and day out. So I think that’s great that you’ve made it so available and accessible.

That’s really wonderful. Well, this has been a great discussion. I’m excited, just listening to this discussion. I’m more excited than ever to practice my Italian and looking forward to coming at the end of July to the event and seeing all the friends and new friends that I’ll meet who will be there. Thank you for making time to be here. Thank you for taking the lead with the EVP on making this happen and making it so affordable and available to our community. I really appreciate that and want to thank both of you for your hard efforts and all the stuff you are going through that we’ll never know to make this wonderful for us. Thank you from the community.

CN: Grazie. And Federica, big grazie to all EVP and NIC members who are supporting us to organize this event, because this is really a joint event, two communities with friends from both the communities supporting us with doing several tasks in parallel and during the event as well. So it’s an opportunity with this interview to say a big grazie in Italian. Thank you to all of them as well.

FT: Thank you, Mike.

MR: That’s great. That’s great. Well, it really does show our community, you know, is one of the friendliest communities in the world. And it’s proven by this event, which is restarted every year by a new community member or members and moved to another city. And, you know, all you really get is the mailing list and some ideas and the rest is up to you. Each time our community delivers with a really wonderful experience. And I have no doubt that this will be a wonderful experience too. So thank you for being here and sharing all the details with us so we can get excited about going to this event at the end of July and the early August.

FT: Thank you, Michael. We are waiting for you.

MR: Yeah, I’m waiting too. I can’t wait. For those who are watching or listening, this will be another episode of the Sketchnote podcast. You can look forward to more episodes coming after this one. Until the next one, talk to you soon.

CN: Thank you. Bye bye. Ciao ciao.

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

May 2026: Sketchnote Lab Dispatch

Mike Rohde — Fri, 01 May 2026 13:34:12 GMT

Photo walk in Milwaukee’s Third Ward is a perfect spring activity.

Happy May 2026!

The weather in Milwaukee is finally warming up, so it’s fun to head out and take street photos! The photo above was from a photo walk last week in Milwaukee’s Third Ward. If you’re curious about my photography, check out my Flickr photo stream.

I hope you’re hanging in there during these chaotic times. I’m doing my best, too. Remember what Mr. Rogers said… “Look for the helpers.”

What’s in this issue?

5 Cool Things to share with you.
Sketchnote Podcast is coming to Sketchnote Lab!
Sketchnote Lab April Problem-Solving: Mauro Toselli Video Replay (free).
My feature in Beauty of a Game with NFL/college football sketchnotes!
Sketchnote Lab Live May - Foundations: Drawing People with Alejo Porras.
Sketchnote Lab 2026 Schedule - see what’s happening each month of 2026.

Five Cool Things

Here are five cool things I thought you would enjoy:

❥ 1. Think faster. Sketch more. How to stay relevant in a time of AI - Visual thinking is a skill for navigating complexity, sparking collaboration, and staying sharp in a world of growing AI reliance. Wise words from Unruled Play.

❥ 2. Reflection Calendars Reveal What Words Can’t in Your Journal - I love this idea of a visual journal with a single square for each day of the week from Erin Nolan. If you’ve struggled to start a visual journaling practice, this might do the trick!

❥ 3. How I filled 100 sketchbooks. And how you can too - My friend Danny Gregory shares his story of going from 0 to 100 sketchbooks with ideas you can use to get yourself rolling if you’ve been dormant. Baby steps!

❥ 4. Disney Imagineering Artist Says Talent is a Myth - Ray Kinman never aimed to become a Disney Imagineering legend. Ray, a self-taught woodcarver, reflects on his journey from a broke young father with no formal training, tools, or plan to carving for Disneyland’s iconic attractions. “Your greatest asset is your persistence.”

❥ 5. Workshop: Sketch with Confidence: The Skill That Gets Your Design Thinking Out of Your Head - On May 14th, I’m leading a 90-minute workshop on wireframing. Sketching is where your thinking becomes visible, where clients see how you solve problems, not just how you use tools. Join me!

Sketchnote Podcast comes to Sketchnote Lab!

BIG NEWS! The podcast formerly known as Sketchnote Army Podcast is coming to Sketchnote Lab! With my focus here, it made sense to bring the podcast over too.

If you’ve not heard or seen the podcast before, I interview fascinating people who practice sketchnoting and visual thinking to understand what makes them tick.

You can check out the 185+ episodes of the old Sketchnote Army Podcast, which has been running since 2016, with tons of great interviews with interesting people.

Watch the teaser video above and see details on the announcement post. The first episode drops next week on Tuesday!

April Live Lab Video Replay: Problem-Solving with Mauro Toselli (Free)

Mauro Toselli brought his Visual Problem Solving methodology to the session, opening with the Meta-Problem — the idea that we often build up a wall of justifications and deflections that buries the real problem we need to solve.

While Mauro laid out the concepts, I sketched his ideas live at my desk, and then we worked through three hands-on drawing exercises together.

The exercises we did together offered a framework to apply immediately:

Mapping the gap between where you are and where you want to be
Sketching the wall of obstacles blocking your path
Identifying a concrete first step forward.

Watch the replay for free

Artist Mike Rohde Uses “Sketchnotes” To Connect With His Beloved Green Bay Packers

My work was featured in the magazine Beauty of a Game this week, featuring my NFL and college football sketchnotes! Thanks for the feature, Jimmy.

Read the article

Coming soon: Sketchnote Lab Live May - Foundations: Drawing People with Alejo Porras.

People are one of the most useful and most intimidating things to draw. In this session, we’ll break it down into two parts so you can start simple and build toward more expressive, dynamic figures.

On Saturday, May 30th from 12-1 US Central, I’ll kick things off by showing you how to draw people using simple shapes and structures. We’ll cover practical approaches you can use immediately in your sketchnotes.

Then, guest Alejo Porras will teach you how to add movement, gesture, and fluidity to your figures. You’ll learn how to make your drawn people feel more alive on the page, not stiff or static.

What you’ll walk away with:

A process for drawing people quickly, starting from the simplest possible forms and building toward figures with energy and personality. Whether you’re capturing a speaker at a conference or mapping out a team scenario, you’ll have techniques you can put to work right away.

Attend live for free

The session is free to all subscribers, with the recorded replay video available exclusively to Supporting and Founding Lab Partners (which includes all video replays since December 2024).

Sketchnote Lab Schedule for 2026

I have two focus areas for 2026:

Teaching foundations for people new to sketchnoting
Live problem-solving sessions to show how you can use sketchnotes as a thinking and problem-solving tool at work and in your everyday life.

You can see January-March replays already as a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner!

Last Month’s Sketchnote Lab Posts

Here’s what happened at Sketchnote Lab last month:

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support my work and access all Live Lab recorded replays since December 2024.

Buy my Sketchnoting Workshops

Check out my sketchnoting workshop videos to build your lettering, layout, and icon creation skills in your sketchnotes, or to learn my travel sketchnote method.

Custom Sketchnote Workshops

I love teaching teams like yours how to think visually and sketch simply with Custom Sketchnote Workshops.

I've presented workshops at schools: Drexel University, Marquette University, and The University of Michigan; Anne Arundel, New York City, and Fresno school districts.

I’ve also presented workshops for teams at SmugMug/Flickr, Hubspot, Northwestern Mutual, Johnson Controls, Dentsu Creative, and Sibley Memorial Hospital.

I’d love to teach your team as well. Let’s talk!

Thanks again for the chance to share something useful in your inbox!

— Mike

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

A New Chapter of the Sketchnote Podcast: Same heart, new energy.

Mike Rohde — Tue, 28 Apr 2026 13:03:21 GMT

In this teaser episode, I share what’s changing with the podcast and what’s staying the same. I talk through the reasons behind the rebrand from Sketchnote Army Podcast to the Sketchnote Podcast, the move to sketchnotelab.com as the new home base, and what to expect in upcoming episodes.

Guests for the new season include: Federica Tabone & Claudio Nichele, Danny Gregory, Sarah Greer & Adrian Peryer, David Armano, Tabitha Walker, Andrew Tan, Georgina Dean, and Atom Brum!

Listen to the episode here:

Running Order

The podcast’s transition from Sketchnote Army to Sketchnote Podcast and the reasoning behind the rebrand
The move to sketchnotelab.com as the new home for content and resources
Continuation of interviews with influential visual thinkers and their stories
How existing episodes remain accessible at sketchnotearmy.com
The focus on expanding content and bringing fresh guests in upcoming seasons
How to stay connected and access archived episodes

Resources & Links

Sponsored by The Reflective Travel Workshop

Have you ever wanted to create travel sketchnotes from an experience you’ve had, just using the photos and memories you’ve got?

This 2-hour recorded video includes a set of downloadable, printable sketching templates and a process to kickstart your own travel sketchnoting practice.

All this for just $20.

Subscribe to the Sketchnote Podcast

You can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or your favorite podcast-listening app.

Support the Podcast

To support the creation and production of the Sketchnote Podcast, buy one of my bestselling books. Use code ROHDE40 at Peachpit.com for 40% off.

Transcript

Hey everybody, it’s Mike Rohde the author of the Sketchnote Handbook and the Sketchnote Workbook and the founder of the Sketchnote Army Podcast. I’m here with some good news and some changes.

The podcast continues for its next season. The changes are, I’m changing the name of the podcast from the Sketchnote Army podcast to the Sketchnote podcast. And it’s moving to sketchnotelab.com. Since that’s where I’m focusing most of my attention and area of expertise for teaching.

It made sense to move the podcast there too. So the podcast will remain. I’ll still be talking to the most interesting visual thinkers in the world, understanding their origin stories, why they do what they do, as well as tips that they can share with you to make your visual practice better and help you think differently about visual thinking to expand your skills and to encourage others to do visual thinking and sketchnoting too.

So the podcast will continue in the audio form. So if you’re listening to this, you’re hearing it in the same feed that the Sketchnote Army podcast was in, but you may notice that there’s new artwork on the podcast when you’re listening. So all that’s really easy for you. Nothing will change.

If you’re watching on YouTube, it’s going to be coming to the same channel where it was posted before. So that doesn’t change either. If you’re looking for the Sketchnote Army podcast, those back episodes that archive still exists at Sketchnote Army.

Go to sketchnotearmy.com/podcast. I think there’s over 185 episodes that you can listen to in the back catalog. Lots of really fascinating people and encouraging stories that you can listen to in that back catalog of information. That’s all going to remain there.

But going forward, we’re going to start with a new season. This will be season one of the Sketchnote Podcast. It’s going to be published at sketchnotelab.com. But everything else is the same.

So the best of all worlds, I think, and I’m excited to bring you new guests starting soon. So look for the next episode with the first guest of the new season and the new name. I’m excited to bring this to you, and until then, talk to you soon

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

Sketchnote Lab Live Replay: April 2026 - Visual Problem Solving w/ Mauro Toselli (Free Replay)

Mike Rohde — Sat, 18 Apr 2026 20:17:42 GMT

Watch the Full Video Replay for Free!

This video is free to watch because Mauro and I felt it was too valuable to hide behind a paywall! Enjoy!

brought his Visual Problem Solving methodology to the session, opening with the Meta-Problem — the idea that we often build up a wall of justifications and deflections that buries the real problem we need to solve.

While Mauro laid out the concepts, I sketched his ideas live at my desk, and then we worked through three hands-on drawing exercises together.

If you are a Supporting Lab Partner, you can watch this and other video replays from December 2024 onward. If you like these videos, become a Lab Partner!

See the 8-minute teaser video of me creating icons.

The exercises we did together offered a framework to apply immediately:

Mapping the gap between where you are and where you want to be
Sketching the wall of obstacles blocking your path
Identifying a concrete first step forward.

Here is Mauro’s original Flat Tire Meta-Problem sketchnote with my notes added live:

Sketchnotes from the session

Below are my sketchnotes from the session, showing how the Meta-Problem framework comes together visually.

1. Mauro’s Problem Statement and Reversal Concept

First, Mauro offered an example of a meta-problem and shared how reversing the thinking can help break down the meta-problem:

2. The 2x2 Matrix of Meta-Problems

Then Mauro talked about his love for 2x2 matrices, offering this one to help identify where a meta-problem falls within the four quadrants:

3. Drwing the Gap

Here is a sketchnote of me drawing gap between my current state (no illustration page or case studies on my website) and my goal state (create a new illustration page and case study pages for my work).

We talked about how the gap is harder to face than it looks:

4. The Meta-Problem Wall

I created a sketchnote map of the Meta-Problem itself: the wall of justifications, deflections, and derivative problems that stack up and bury the real issue you need to solve. Black numbers relate to sketchnote 5 below:

5. The First Step Map

This sketchnote connects ideas for solving meta-bricks in the wall, showing how getting past the wall leads directly to first actions you can take right now:

6. Tools to help with Meta-Problems

Here are some of the tools we discussed to help solve Meta-Problems, like asking 5 Why’s, Doing a Root Cause Analysis, and working with others to avoid blind spots:

Resources

Here are some resources related to this session:

Mauro Toselli (xLontrax)
Keep the Creative Juices Flowing Substack
Mauro’s Meta-Problem Post
The xLontrax Theory of Sketchnote — Mauro’s flagship book; handwritten and hand-drawn, landscape-oriented. Explores his philosophy and definition of sketchnoting as “notes enriched with meaningful visual elements, open to sharing and creating new opportunities for human connections.
100+1 Drawing Ideas for Sketchnoters and Doodlers — A practical tutorial book of simple drawing techniques for sketchnoters.

Thanks again for the chance to share something useful in your inbox!

— Mike

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

April 2026: Sketchnote Lab Dispatch

Mike Rohde — Wed, 01 Apr 2026 13:03:21 GMT

Welcome to the Sketchnote Lab Dispatch for April 2026!

Spring is here, and I’m happy to have it arrive, finally. We had a late snowstorm in Wisconsin in mid-March, so warmer weather is much appreciated.

I hope you’re doing well wherever you are in these chaotic times.

What’s in this issue?

5 Cool Things to share with you.
March’s Creating Icons for Sketchnoters Video Replay.
April’s Problem-Solving with Mauro Toselli - sign up for free!
Sketch First! - My post on the importance of sketching in iterative projects.
Sketchnote Lab 2026 Schedule - see what’s happening each month of 2026.

Five Cool Things

Here are five cool things I thought you would enjoy:

❥ 1. Drawing Visual Metaphors with Eva-Lotta Lamm - Draw along with Eva-Lotta Lamm as she shows you how to explore metaphors and analogies for greater creativity, exploring abstract concepts, and coming up with new solutions.

❥ 2. How to add writing to your sketchbook - Andrew James of Coffee In Drawings Out offers tips for adding writing to sketches in your sketchbook.

❥ 3. Why you stopped drawing and how to start again - an inspiring video from Danny Gregory, encouraging you to start drawing again if you’ve stopped.

❥ 4. How the iconic LIFE Noble Notebook is made - A 7-minute JetPens video documenting how the unique LIFE Noble notebooks are manufactured. ASMR!

❥ 5. Why boredom is good for you - A short BBC animated video on the benefits of allowing yourself to become bored to increase your capacity for creativity.

Ellington Pens offers beautiful, feel-great-in-the-hand metal fountain pens at reasonable prices. Get 20% off their pens with my special affiliate code: INKED

March Live Lab Replay: Creating Sketchnote Icons

Icons are among the most useful tools in your sketchnoting practice. In this live session, I’ll teach you how to build icons from the five basic shapes, making marks into icons that communicate your ideas simply and quickly.

What We Covered

The 5 Basic Shapes - how squares, circles, triangles, lines, and dots are the building blocks of every icon.
Recognizable, not realistic - simplicity is the goal; nearby words in sketchnotes carry some of the weight.
Live icon demos - I created houses, books, coffee cups, mountains, and pizza slices, drawing each with as few lines as possible with the first template sheet.
Icon Generator Sheet - I shared how to use my template for generating icons quickly; quantity over quality.
Icon Iterator Sheet - I also shared the template sheet for refining your best ideas into clean, repeatable icons.
Final Icon Library Sheet - The template sheet where your finished icons end up, ready to reference and practice against.
Visual metaphors - We took a quick look at moving from drawing objects to capturing abstract ideas and shared Dario Paniagua’s metaphors community.

April Live Problem-Solving w/ Mauro Toselli

Special guest Mauro Toselli will bring a challenge on Saturday, April 18, and I’ll use sketchnoting to visualize the problem and brainstorm potential solutions.

The session is free to all subscribers, with the recorded replay video available exclusively to Supporting and Founding Lab Partners (which includes all video replays since December 2024).

Sketch first! Designing the bag for Baking Steel 72-Hour Pizza Dough Mix

In this detailed post, I share my sketch process for creating packaging for pizza dough mix and explain why sketching first is vitally important in iterative projects.

This past weekend, I tested out the dough mix, and it was awesome!

Sketchnote Lab Schedule for 2026

I have two focus areas for 2026:

Teaching foundations for people new to sketchnoting
Live problem-solving sessions to show how you can use sketchnotes as a thinking and problem-solving tool at work and in your everyday life.

You can see January-March replays already as a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner!

Last Month’s Sketchnote Lab Posts

Here’s what happened at Sketchnote Lab last month:

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support my work and access all Live Lab recorded replays since December 2024.

Buy my Sketchnoting Workshops

Check out my sketchnoting workshop videos to build your lettering, layout, and icon creation skills in your sketchnotes, or to learn my travel sketchnote method.

Custom Sketchnote Workshops

I love teaching teams like yours how to think visually and sketch simply with Custom Sketchnote Workshops.

I've presented workshops at schools: Drexel University, Marquette University, and The University of Michigan; Anne Arundel, New York City, and Fresno school districts.

I’ve also presented workshops for teams at SmugMug/Flickr, Hubspot, Northwestern Mutual, Johnson Controls, Dentsu Creative, and Sibley Memorial Hospital.

I’d love to teach your team as well. Let’s talk!

Thanks again for the chance to share something useful in your inbox!

— Mike

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

Sketchnote Lab Live Replay: March 2026 - Foundations: Creating Sketchnote Icons

Mike Rohde — Sat, 21 Mar 2026 19:38:20 GMT

Saturday's icon foundations session covered a lot of ground in just 60 minutes. We worked through how every icon starts from five basic shapes, why recognizable beats realistic every time, and how to build a personal icon library you can put to use right away. Attendees drew along live, which made for a fun, active session.

“Thanks Mike, I really like seeing you walk through the process.” - Eric

“Always enjoyable!“ - Ben

Here’s an 8-minute teaser of creating icons from the 1-hour live session:

What We Covered

The 5 Basic Shapes - how squares, circles, triangles, lines, and dots are the building blocks of every icon.
Recognizable, not realistic - simplicity is the goal; nearby words in sketchnotes carry some of the weight.
Live icon demos - I created houses, books, coffee cups, mountains, and pizza slices, drawing each with as few lines as possible with the first template sheet.
Icon Generator Sheet - I shared how to use my template for generating icons quickly; quantity over quality.
Icon Iterator Sheet - I also shared the template sheet for refining your best ideas into clean, repeatable icons.
Final Icon Library Sheet - The template sheet where your finished icons end up, ready to reference and practice against.
Visual metaphors - We took a quick look at moving from drawing objects to capturing abstract ideas and shared Dario Paniagua’s metaphors community.

Sketchnote Icon Samples

Below are my sketchnotes created during the session.

Session Overview & Icon Principles

The schedule, 5 Basic Shapes, and icon creation with the template, page 1:

Icon Generator & Iterator Work

Detail work on a laptop icon using the Icon Iterator template, page 2.

Supporting and Founding Lab Partners can watch the full video to see how these were developed during the session.

Resources

The Noun Project - icon reference and inspiration
Dario Paniagua’s community - in-depth training on visual metaphors
Icon Template Sheet in US Letter or A4 formats for printing.
Lamy Studio Fountain Pen
TWSBI Eco Fountain Pen

Spring Discount — 10% Off Annual Lab Partnerships.

As a thank-you for this spring, here’s 10% off an annual Supporting or Founding Lab Partnership through May 1, 2026.

Claim it here: sketchnotelab.com/spring10

Watch the Full Video Replay

If you aren’t a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner, watch me demonstrate my icon design process by becoming a Lab Partner. You’ll get access to the full session recording and all recordings in the Partner Vault from December 2024.

Sketch first! Designing the bag for Baking Steel 72-Hour Pizza Dough Mix

Mike Rohde — Fri, 13 Mar 2026 18:15:47 GMT

Final 72-hour Pizza Dough Mix packaging. It turned out great!

Sketching is a key part of my design process. Here’s how a package design for Baking Steel’s 72-Hour Pizza Dough Mix reveals the value of that process.

Andris Lagsdin of Baking Steel needed packaging for his 72 Hour Pizza Dough mix, a product he created around his popular recipe for pizza dough. He loved the idea of making this mix accessible to anyone who wants to make pizza by just adding water.

This is a way for Andris to extend the empire he is building with Baking Steel tools that align with teaching foundational pizza and baking techniques and selling other tools and materials you need to support baking as a practice.

This is a Baking Steel.

Origin story: Meeting Andris

A few years ago, I learned about Baking Steel from my friend Bryan who swears by them for his weekly pizza ritual.

When I dug into the Baking Steel story I discovered Andris Lagsdin. I reached out through Instagram after using his 72-hour dough recipe for pizza nights. We chatted for a bit and we made a trade: my Sketchnote Handbook for one of his Baking Steels. A friendship was born.

We talked off and on for about a year as I experimented with the Baking Steel he sent by baking pizza and sourdough bread. The Steel worked so well I became an unofficial ambassador for the product!

Meeting Andris for the first time in Grand Rapids.

Last year I becan experimenting with Detroit-style pizza, and Andris invited me and my son Nathan to Grand Rapids to shoot a video on my process:

This led to a level of trust between me and Andris that laid the foundation for design work that would follow this year.

Listen before sketching

Late last year I got a text from Andris with pictures of a dough bag and a note about making a shelf-ready package to hold his 72-hour pre-mixed pizza dough. We got on the phone and I started asking him about the details and what he was imagining.

A few key ideas he shared:

He wanted to feature a dough ball prominently on the bag
A black bag color was important to signal the high-end quality of the organic flour he’s using and the upscale brand of Baking Steel
Hand-drawn sketchnoted feel for the packaging was also key for Andris to make it human and fun

My notes from a call with Andris as we started the bag design process.

With a brief in place I could begin the process of sketching ideas to share. The next step: make time and get out the old iPad Pro and Apple Pencil.

Join Sketchnote Lab
Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to access the Lab Partner Vault and all the Lab video replays since December 2024.

Join Sketchnote Lab!

Sketching on the iPad

For this project I decded to use Concepts on the iPad to sketch ideas for Andris, since we had an established brand, colors, and a bag size in mind.

My first sketch focused on the title of the mix being emphasized and the idea that this one dough ball can create many things, with arrows pointing to drawings of those various baked goods.

A Just Add Water element was also important, to reinforce that making pizza dough with the mix is as easy as adding water, mixing, and waiting:

Sketch number one, capturing initial ideas for direction.

We discussed the first sketch and decided to simplifly the front of the bag for clarity by moving the multiple baked items to the back of the bag.

With an actual template for the bag from the printer, I adjusted the proportions to match the specs and reoriented the details into a second sketch of both the front and back designs with all elements accounted for:

My second sketch of fromt and back of the bag that moved the design forward.

Having this ability to explore ideas and tweak the details, a benefit of using the vector-based Concepts app, helped me in this process. Sketching is all about exploration and adapability until the pieces fall into place.

Final production

Andris loved the second sketch and approved the direction for production. I had a detailed template he provied that I used to build the layered production file from in Adobe Illustrator, then began dropping all of the pieces in place.

Because I used the vector-based Concepts I was able to bring in many of the already hand-drawn elements from the sketches into the final prodution art with some tuning up. This saved a lot of time having to re-draw the baked goods, lettering, etc.

This package design was a perfect candidate for using my Sketchnote Typeface, which was drawn by hand for The Sketchnote Handbook in 2011 and has been a great tool for projects like these.

The very condensed hand-drawn typeface for PIZZA DOUGH MIX was created for another project as a headline font (in Concepts) and has been a great for projects like this. I have plans to add a new Sketchnote Compressed to the typeface suite.

With drawn elements, text, UPC code, and indgredients details in place, the artwork went off to Andris for final approval and then to the printer for production.

Here’s the final result:

You can now buy 72-Hour Pizza Dough Mix from Baking Steel to see the package in detail and give this easy-to-make dough option a whirl for pizza night.

The takeaway for your own work?

What I love about this process:

I intentionally keep myself from moving too quickly to production. I talk with the client to deeply understand their needs and desires and then reflect those in my sketches to gain alignment with them.
It’s important to spend the time needed to iterate in the sketch until it feels like you can’t wait to actually build the thing. Allow the excitement to build.
An iterative approach means you don’t have to make it perfect right out of the gate. Let the client, your senses, and time help you refine the project.

The process is similar for many other projects. Whatever you’re working on, time spent sketching saves time, gets you to better ideas, and keeps you in sync with your colleagues, clients, and yourself.

Thanks again for the chance to share something useful in your inbox!

— Mike

P.S. I’m leading a Live Lab session on Saturday, March 21st on creating sketchnote icons and you’re invited! It’s free to join the live session, recordings are for Supporting and Founding Lab Partners. Sign up for the free session.

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

March 2026: Sketchnote Lab Dispatch

Mike Rohde — Tue, 03 Mar 2026 14:03:46 GMT

My live sketchnote from the February session with Brad Did.

Welcome to the Sketchnote Lab Dispatch for March 2026!

Spring is just around the corner, and it’s a great time to learn to create simple icons in this month’s Live Lab session.

I hope you are doing well wherever you are.

What’s in this issue?

5 Cool Things to share with you.
Creating Icons for Sketchnoters: a free Live Lab session on Saturday, March 21.
February Problem-Solving with Brad Did Video Replay - watch me use sketchnotes to work through a real problem in real time.
Sketchnote Lab 2026 Schedule to see what’s happening each month of 2026.

Five Cool Things

Here are five cool things I thought you would enjoy:

❥ 1. Help! I don’t know what to draw! My friend Zsofi shares eight great ways to fill your illustrated journal with drawings to capture your life.

❥ 2. Hand-drawn explanations: how curling works - I’m loving the hand-drawn explainer videos from SportsBall_Visual. In this video, learn how curling works!

❥ 3. How to get 1% better at drawing every day — Artist and teacher Massa offers helpful ways to make it a sustainable practice.

❥ 4. Don’t Call it Art — My friend Austin Kleon is releasing his 4th book, Don’t Call it Art, on June 2, 2026. Steal Like an Artist was his first, launching the same year as The Sketchnote Handbook (2012). Pre-order.

❥ 5. Ellington Pens - I teamed up with Ellington Pens to test-drive their Stealth Fountain Pen in February. It’s beautiful, feels great in the hand, and is reasonably priced. As a new affiliate, I can offer you a 20% discount on any of their pens with my special code: INKED — check it out!

March Live Lab: Creating Sketchnote Icons

Icons are one of the most useful skills in your sketchnoting practice. In this live session, I’ll teach you how to build icons from the five basic shapes, making marks into icons that communicate your ideas simply and quickly.

Here’s a look at what we’ll cover:

How every icon starts with circles, squares, triangles, lines, and dots
Simplification: what makes an icon recognizable, rather than realistic, and how to add just the right details to let the brain fill in the rest.
Building an icon library: how to create a set of icons specific to your work and life that you can use right away.
Visual metaphors: we’ll touch on ways to draw abstract concepts.

This session will build your practical icon-making skills, which you can put to work immediately on your next sketchnote.

Join me on Saturday, March 21, 2026, from 12-1 US Central for this free session:

The session is free to all subscribers, with the recorded replay video available exclusively to Supporting and Founding Lab Partners (which includes all video replays since December 2024).

February Sketchnote Lab Live Video Replay: Problem-Solving with Brad Did

In February, special guest brought a personal challenge to the live session. I used sketchnoting to listen to Brad, map the problem, and then brainstorm a solution.

Here’s a sample sketchnote page from the session:

Here’s a short teaser to show you how the image above was built:

Watch the Replay Video

By the way, Supporting and Founding Lab Partners have had access to all video replays since December 2024. If you subscribe today, you get access too!

Sketchnote Lab Schedule for 2026

I have two focus areas for 2026:

Teaching foundations for people new to sketchnoting
Live problem-solving sessions to show how you can use sketchnotes as a thinking and problem-solving tool at work and in your everyday life.

Last Month’s Sketchnote Lab Posts

Here’s what happened at Sketchnote Lab last month:

Become a Supporting Lab Partner to support my work and access all Live Lab recorded replays since December 2024 to help build your sketchnoting practice!

Buy my Sketchnoting Workshops

Check out my sketchnoting workshop videos to build your lettering, layout, and icon creation skills in your sketchnotes, or to learn my travel sketchnote method.

Custom Sketchnote Workshops

I love teaching teams like yours how to think visually and sketch simply with Custom Sketchnote Workshops.

I've presented workshops at schools: Drexel University, Marquette University, and The University of Michigan; Anne Arundel, New York City, and Fresno school districts.

I’ve also presented workshops for teams at SmugMug/Flickr, Hubspot, Northwestern Mutual, Johnson Controls, Dentsu Creative, and Sibley Memorial Hospital.

I’d love to teach your team as well. Let’s talk!

Thanks again for the chance to share something useful in your inbox!

— Mike

Mike is the author of The Sketchnote Handbook and The Sketchnote Workbook, bestselling books that teach regular people how to start sketchnoting and build a regular sketchnoting practice.

He founded the Sketchnote Army and hosts the Sketchnote Podcast, where he interviews visual thinkers to understand what makes them tick.

Mike teaches recorded, live, and in-person workshops to help accelerate your sketchnoting practice and provides personalized coaching for your specific visual thinking challenges.

He is the illustrator of bestselling books like REWORK, REMOTE, The $100 Startup, Honest SEO, The Culture Playbook, and The Future Begins with Z.

Become a Supporting or Founding Lab Partner to support Mike’s work.

Sketchnote Lab Live Replay: February 2026 - Problem Solving with Special Guest Brad Did

Mike Rohde — Sat, 14 Feb 2026 21:42:24 GMT

Saturday’s Sketchnote Lab Live workshop was a huge success! 63 spots were reserved, and 33 attended the live event!

After reading the initial brief and discussing the details of a problem my friend Brad brought to the session, we had a live client discussion, and I worked on a sketchnote to solve it in real time.

The Q&A period was great. We saw samples from attendees, while comments and suggestions furthered the possible solutions. It was fun, and it made me want to do another session!

Here are a few comments from attendees:

“I had so much fun with this workshop! Thank you to Brad for sharing his inspirational journey and to Mike for working through Brad's challenge on paper. Thank you so much for making this available. Great work!” — Brooke

“Thank you. Really enjoyed seeing you work through the problem.” — Eric

“I learned a lot, and time flew. You listen well.” — Toni

“I joined late and still got many good ideas, insights, and recommendations. Thank you’d to Mike and Brad.” — Jim

Here’s a 5-minute teaser from the 1-hour live session: